When do you stop

#1

Working with carrier on supplement. We were doing Great negotiating and then she shut me down flat out. Stating not all items are owed after the fact (I get that), but that’s what supplements are for! I’ve worked the other side of supplements and the firm always bent over backwards to get an agreement with the contractor bc they don’t want issues later on. Insureds contract states any addt supplements could be sent to their insurance. Not only that of course the insured is owed any reasonable amounts for Their claim. I know I’m preaching to the choir here but dang she got me frustrated! I’m not one to give up since I know she’s not in the right here, I’m drafting my email back to her. Just curious how y’all handle the push back.

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#2

You seriously think the IC simply approves all the supplement items you submit? Understand, IC’s are publicly held entities whose primary responsibility is to deliver a profit to their stock holders. If they wanted to pay correctly for jobs, they would train adjusters to do so.

First, you need to supplement properly providing photos and documentation to support each item. If they deny these, your best bet is to ask the Homeowner to call the IC and ask for these items. If that fails, you have to option of appraisal or using a Public Adjuster. Failing that, you could then turn to an Attorney.

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#3

Well aware of everything you’re saying. Most homeowners don’t want problems and not sure they’d be willing to take it that far. My supplements are always backed up with photos and documentation as needed. Most da’s don’t want problems either.

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#4

A major part of supplementing correctly is having your Sales Reps sell your Customers on the need to be part of the process. I disagree with your statement. If sold to correctly and expectations set properly, most Homeowners will get involved. We get the HO involved quite frequently.

Sales Reps have to start becoming real Sales Professionals in this industry. Too many are confused into thinking they’re actually good simply because they knock a lot of doors and sell “free” roofs. If the Sales Reps want to enjoy the additional commissions from supplementing, they need to be part of that effort by doing their part.

Other than that, i don’t know what to tell you. You’re not going to get everything you ask for or will do so very rarely. If you’ve been getting everything you ask for most of the time, then you’ve clearly not been asking for enough.

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#5

Or I could be a really good negotiator and that’s how I get my line items paid for :woman_shrugging:t3:
You’ve always got one that doesn’t operate like the rest.

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#6

Apparently that isn’t working so well with this one from the sounds of it. I prefer not to negotiate. The majority of my supplements don’t require a phone call or negotiation. It’s difficult to negotiate with someone commanded to say no and is basically incompetent. If the supplement is prepared correctly, what is there to negotiate?

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#7

You just answered the question yourself. They’re trained to say no.

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#8

I didn’t have a question, you did.

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#9

This looks like a question to me.

Also, your post from 2011 seems to offer pretty clear negiotiating tactics.

Really not sure why you’re barking up my tree being condescending. You’ve offered nothing of substance for me here.

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#10

Is obvious then you know it all so I’ll just ignore you moving forward. Good luck with your negotiations.

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#11

You will not get everything you ask for every time, but you have to pick your battles. Is it a significant amount of money? If not, some times you have to cut your losses and make it up on the next claim. If it is significant ask for the adjuster’s supervisor and take it above their head. I don’t recommend doing this often as it will give you a reputation with the carrier, but sometimes it is necessary - make sure the reward is worth it though!

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#12

I personally negotiate all supplements before I Roof the home. This forces the adjuster to approve them before we begin. I have found that once the homeowner receives the good news (Approval) they get excited and want the new roof on ASAP. But I will not start the project until the IC approved my estimate for all legitimate line items.

I do spend time reviewing the estimate together and educatig the homeowner to ensure the understand the legitimacy of my estimate before sending it. This ensure the carrier can’t get them to contradict me and put them in a bind with the ensured wanting their roof done properly. My contract also says the homeowner will pay for anything the carrier doesn’t approve that is required by code or manufacturer installation instructions. So once I show them the estimate is legitimate they get on board pretty quick to get the IC to pay it so they don’t have to.

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#13

I have no idea why y’all are alway suplimenting! They were virtually unheard of 15 years ago. Unless it’s unforseen bad decking or something else you couldn’t have seen while bidding! Do an actual inspection and make you you have everything included, negotiate it all out before you ever don the job! I hear people saying “I suplimented the extra 5 square the job used”! Extra 5 square? Lord all mighty man, measure jobs much?

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#14

Kpratt, my Business is a little more of a specific niche. If you try submitting an invoice to an insurance company for a “proper” estimate up front and do not manage the claim for them they will often tell your customer, “we have plenty of contractors we can recommend to you to do your project for our price.” Which is on average $269-328 / SQ. Which is garbage as every manufacturer increased prices 8% five times last year in my area. They’ll tell the customer to get 2 other bids and you’ll drop your price or lose the project to an insurance minion. You can’t compete here and run a legal and legitimate business at those prices. Not if you are licensed, pay WC & GL, and actually provide a good product. At least in my area that is…

So rather than spend all day measuring roofs and writing estimates for potential business. I’ll sit here and supplement business that is already under contract to maximize profit. To each their own…

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#15

Sounds like the industry has passed you by without you being aware of it. Supplementing is absolutely necessary because, for a variety of reasons, the Insurance Companies do not include all the line items that should have been included in their scope of loss. Real simple. It’s also illegal to “negotiate” the price with the insurance company. It’s called Unlawful Practice of Public Adjusting (UPPA).

Measure jobs much? You should check, the insurance company puts their measurements on the scope of loss which are incorrect on the low side around 95% of the time. This is primarily due to incorrectly calculating the waste and using EagleView Reports that are incorrectly sketched, have missing roof elements and/or use the wrong pitch.

It was virtually unheard of 15 years. Here’s the deal pal. It’s 2019, not 2004. If you’re operating your business in 2019 similar to how you did in 2004, you’re likely on the verge of going out of business. Do you still use a Motorola Flip Phone? Or a Windows 5 computer? Or dial up modem?

Don’t blame the people who have adapted for your problems.

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#16

Lol! We do plenty of ins work with little to no problem with adjusters. We do not however rely on their measurements, so I really could care less what their scope or line items say. We bid to repair the issues caused by the storm and the ins co price covers that amount, were good to go. There are prob many additional line items we could try to add, supliment them, bitch piss and mone to get them added, and thereby delay the customer getting made while for a longer time, just to add extra money to the cost. I look at some of the pumped up bids these “roofers” put out as legit and it amazes me they can lol in the mirror expecting to be paid that much. Or course, big wrapped over the top trucks are expensive lol. They bid jobs everyday at normal numbers, but if it’s insurance, all of a sudden it jumps 50%. And I am well away what year it is “Pal”. We use a computer system that “we” developed and own, we run our own loader trucks (7 of them), we stick our own materials in our 6 acre facility, and have been in the same town under the same name for 30 years. I think we kinda know what to hell were doing!

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#17

Sounds like you’re a Legend in your own mind.

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#18

To be fair, after considering your comments, while I think you could have expressed yourself more professionally, I actually agree with a lot of them. We supplement 90% of the insurance jobs we work on. However, we don’t do it in an effort to “jack up the price” or “stick it to the insurance” or even “to get all we can get”. Rather, it’s done out of necessity due to the low ball scopes written by the Insurance Adjusters.

It sounds like your company may have a somewhat dominant position in your local market for a long period. That also means you likely developed a close relationship with the local Adjusters. Out of necessity, the local Adjusters probably don’t wish to go to war with your company. I’m guessing they know what you expect, and it is likely reasonable, so they more readily comply with that rather than drag out the process.

We very, very rarely use Appraisal or PA’s. Less than 8 times in 10 years. We also very rarely delay the construction/repairs due to supplementing. The vast majority of supplements are reconciled with the IC in less than 2 weeks, most within a week. We also don’t bill for work we don’t do. If we supplement for an item, the work gets done.

If you just paint with a little narrower brush, I’m guessing we’d agree on a lot more things than we disagree on.

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#19

Maybe I should authentic. I do get a little worked up sometimes seeing what tgis industry has been reduced to over the last decade or so, and I could go on for hours with how it’s not good! We do not supliment virtually ever! We do our best to know what is needed on the job and work that cost out before ever driving a nail. That’s just the way we like to do it, others see it different, and I understand that. I see far too many “contractors” that don’t have as much invested in their own business as their customers do, running a piss poor operation that can only make money by trying to jack up prices to the ins company because they have no biz being in biz and can’t control their own cost to be actually competitive. Once they have the customers signature on a contingent contract, it’s Katie bar the door and line item the shit out of the bid. At that point there is no “competitor” just them and the ins company going at it! Hell, there’s even “universities” out there these days that will show um how to do it for a nice price! I’m not in any way suggesting that you are one of them, but you know that they exist and there are getting to be a ton more every year! I’ll quit ranting now lol.

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#20

Kevin, we have local adjusters that respect how we conduct business and we work with well. Unfortunately, let there be a storm of any kind, and all these CAT Adjusters come flocking into town. They don’t want to see our estimate, they don’t want to talk about anything. All they want to do is notch as many claims per day as they can to collect their fees. And in the process, write 2 line remove & replace shingle roof replacement scopes.

And yes, I find the business practices of many Contractors out there disgusting and reprehensible. The reality is though, some form of those businesses always exist in the market. They come and they go. When they go, another one or two spring up to take their place. And the truly good companies just keep rolling along. I apologize for some of my remarks, I realize now you were just venting. Best wishes for your continued success.

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