UURRRGGG Broke of a pc of shingle now what?

Ok I was knocking off a chunk of ice on my addition roof and the very first shingle back about 3" from the drip edge tore off the top layer about the size of a quater. They are Archct shingles and it had to be the area of the shingle where its only one layer. You could see like fiberglass fibers but it didnt go alll the way thru. Now what is under that shingle ? I know there is I & W shield 3ft back so do they lay the I & W then put the first course right on top of that ? Or is there a starter row on top of the I & W ? Or is there rolled roofing or what is normally done ? Should I try and replace this whole shingle or will it not leak with the tar I put on it ? I hate this roof, lol I wish I didnt get any ice but I have done all I can to stop it. I know the roofer out 3ft of I & W 11 yrs ago when he did the tear off and there is a valley a few shingles above where I did the damage and I know he did 6 ft of I & W up the valley and rolled roofing and aluminum in the valley too so that area should be ok I would hope. Thanks fellas !

should be able to fill hole with sealant and press broken shingle peace back in place.

its only like a skin off the top just the stones and a very thin like skin layer of shingle. Its out of the middle of the tab too not the edge. I put some wet dry tar on topof it but dont know if it will stick in 35 deg weather.I hate having ANY ice on my roof edge. I am anal what can I say

oh and the pc that was stuck to the ice after the ice melted was just stones and a layer about as thick as a pc of paper so nothing to really glue back on

  1. Photos would help.

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I live in Upstate NY. I will try a pic but you probably will not be able to tell much as I already put some tar and loose stones on it.

What is usualy under the first course just the Ice and Water or is there starter on top of that ?


What type of tool are you using to “knock” the ice off the roof?

If the shingle is not damaged too bad, it can probably wait until spring or warmer weather.
Shingles are very brittle this time of year, even new ones.
It is difficult to replace shingles without breaking more of them, when it is cold.

There is probably Ice & water shield under your damaged shingle.
But who knows…
Could you post some pictures of your ice build up?
Some icicles on your eaves in the winter is normal, the key word here being some…
There will be more in some areas than others, depending upon the design of your home.

Just because you have icicles doesn’t mean you have ice dams.
And you must be careful when removing ice & snow from your roof.

I know there is I & W 3 ft back but does the first course of shingle go right on top of the I & W or is there a starter course put on top of the I & W first ?

The tool I was using was a regular screwdriver. It was a chunk of ice on the roof edge near my heat cable and i just chipped it what I thought was lightly and the pc came off with a thin layer off the top of the shingle.

I guess my whole question is on a normal roof that used Ice and Water does the first course of shingle go right on top of the I & W or is there something else put over the I & W under the first course ?

I dont think this will leak as it didnt even go all the way thru the shingle. I will try and post pics of the Ice its about 1" thick at the edge and goes back about 3 " and its always on either side of the valley n the Southern roof.

I have great full run soffit vents and full length vent ridge and 18 "of insulation… Thanks

Yes, there should be a starter under the first course of shingles.
And there probably is, most people get this part right.

Use a hammer to remove the ice, don’t use anything sharp like a screwdriver…
And when you use a hammer, be careful, the shingles are brittle.
You don’t need to remove ALL the ice, just the ice dam.
If you don’t have an ice dam, don’t fork with it…

So then I SHOULD have I & W and then starter then the first course right ? The starter sits on top of the I & W ? Now how far back does the starter run ?? Is there felt over those too or only above where the I & W stops ?

So I should be ok them if it didnt go all the way thru and I have a starter curse and then the I & W . I know if it was up another course then I would have the top of the lower shingle under the tab but I was worried when it was the first course.

Sure wish I didn’t get any ice…

If you post a picture of your ice build up WE can be of much more help.

At this point it is a fairly generic “I have icicles” problem…
Until we see an example of your ice problem, it cannot be determined as to how much of a “problem” you really have.
Some people have the tendency to over react.
You can’t really tell until you look at what they are describing.

Until then it might be a good idea to put away your screwdriver stay off your roof.
It survived this long, it will last a bit longer…

Where in “Upstate New York”? We have some regulars from that area & they may be able to pay a visit & calm your fears.

You can update your profile with this info & it will show every time you post (like you see in the space just below our avatars)


You have not had a problem in 11 years. Eventually you will make a problem and then you can say “I was right”.

Leave your roof alone.

The roof cement will hold.

Heat cables are inadequate for your needs, your area just simply gets too much snow and is too cold for that system to work right.

Did my wife tell you to post that ? She keeps telling me the same thing. I did talk tonight to the roofer who did the job this is what he told me was done and he is a very honest guy :

Ice and water 3ft up on eves
then starter course
Then first course of shingles
I & W in the valley (perpendicular to the valley) 6 ft up and run 4 ft over the main roof on both sides then felted in and 90 pound over that
Metal at the end of the valley for support ?

My big concern is that where the valley ends it is open under it where the valley is above the main lower roof.

It seems as though water could back up under that area. I think the main reason I have had no problem in 11 yrs is that I use the heat wire in those areas.

If you do have ice dams how far apart should you cut channels every inch or so ? My Mother in law has ice damming on her roof but the guy said the channels can be 6 ft apart.

Thanks guys

[quote]Ice and water 3ft up on eves
then starter course
Then first course of shingles
I & W in the valley (perpendicular to the valley) 6 ft up and run 4 ft over the main roof on both sides then felted in and 90 pound over that
Metal at the end of the valley for support ? [/quote]

The Ice & water shield probably should have been more than 3’ on the eaves (spec says it should be…) But I have seen this work more often than not.
On a simple roof it isn’t a problem.
Everything else sounds good.
How big are these icicles that are bothering you?

Water starts backing up when you have ice dams, otherwise it just flows off the roof.
It doesn’t matter what area it is, if it starts backing up it will leak.

An ice dam is a flat spot on your pitched roof that you can easily stand on (formed by ice of course) this usually occurs at the eaves but can be in different areas as well.

Its not hanging ice its ice on the edge of the roof about 1 or 2 " thick that goes back about 3" or so along about a 10ft length.

The heat wire does work as I have it in the gutters too and when its on it will melt the ice and snow about 6" on either side of the wire.

But I only have it in the areas of the valleys I have 2 valleys on the southern roof and this is where the ice builds up. It fills the gutter with ice.

Not sure what would happen if I left it alone, I feel it would come in ???

All heat tape does is move the ice further up the roof. If the roof is new what is the worry i dont understand.

The roof is 11 yrs old not new. The heat tape seems to melt like 6" wide channels and gives any water a way to the gutter.

Seems to work very well. Again im just nervous that if I dont use the wire that ice will build up and back up into the house. I know I have 3ft of I & W but hey im anal !

The worst spot I worry about is under each valley there is like an open cavity that goes under the valley.

I would like to run a bead of GeoCel so that if I had a back up of water it couldn’t go in there. Otherwise I am probably covered with the I & W but I dont like seeing the ice espessially after I put so much venting and insulation up there.

where in upstate?