Roof Waste Calculator Update

A number of people here have used the roof waste calculator Excel spreadsheet I put together. I’m sure many are experiencing difficulty with State Farm (and others) paying the appropriate/correct amount of material on their claims. We all know the standard bullshit line “10% for gables, 15% for hips” which clearly isn’t adequate for 95% plus of the roofs. By my calculations, the ONLY time 10% works for gables is when it is a simple 2 slope roof and the only time 15% is perfectly adequate for a hip is when it is a simple 4 slope hip. We have utilized this spread sheet quite often to successfully argue our case and get the waste increased to a reasonable number.

I’m not posting this to argue with some douchebag moron like CatSubtractor over whether this type of effort should be necessary or not. Of course it shouldn’t. However, in most cases for us at least, it works, it is the least path of resistance and it gets us paid for the proper amount of material. I’m also not going to debate the math. I purposefully used conservative numbers particularly on the valley underlayer calculations. If you believe the math should be different, have a happy and create your own spread sheet. This one has worked for us. Go to dropbox.com , the username is markiemark329@yahoo.com, the password is roofer789 This should allow you to download the Excel file and the one page of user instructions.

I have created a dropbox account specifically to hold these documents. Feel free to download and use them at your convenience. I also posted a simple sheet of instructions. Note you will need Excel 2010 in all likelihood to utilize the spread sheet.

The first sheet, shown below, is where you do the calculations for the roof you are working on. Pretty simple, substitute your Customer’s Name at the top where it says “CUSTOMER”. Fill in the dimensions in the 5 cells with the green border. You can obtain these from whatever source you wish. We sketch our roofs in Xactimate therefore that is where we get our data. The four cells with black borders are all automatically calculated based upon the data you enter. It is important to note the total is for Cap, Starter and Valley Underlayer. It does not include anything for trim scrap. You can click on the red arrow and move the arrow end to whichever waste cell that is appropriate. There is a conclusion box below that (not shown in the image below) where you can type in your argument, such as “7.50% was required strictly for accessories. Add 5% for trim scrap and this roof should use 12.5% as the waste factor.” Once you’ve completed this, print to a pdf or a hard copy, whatever best serves your needs. We have to send this in on almost every supplement with SF, so the PDF comes in handy.

%between%http://i992.photobucket.com/albums/af41/roofermark_2009/WasteCalcSheet_zps5284c334.jpg

Interestingly enough, the roof shown below came up the past couple of days and I saw it as a perfect example to demonstrate why 10% waste for gable roofs isn’t adequate. This is on all sheets as it illustrates the point trying to be made. The roof drawings are from Xactimate sketch.

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%between%http://i992.photobucket.com/albums/af41/roofermark_2009/2gableroofexamples_zps0a805539.jpg

The next sheet shows the calculations for these two roofs side by side. I plan to make a version of this for hip roofs in the next few days and will post it in dropbox as well.

%between%http://i992.photobucket.com/albums/af41/roofermark_2009/SampleCalculations_zpsa24c1f8b.jpg

Finally, the last sheet simply has some supporting documentation taken from a Manufacturer’s Install Guide. You can find this material just about anywhere.

%between%http://i992.photobucket.com/albums/af41/roofermark_2009/BackgroundandSupportingInformationImage_zps03fe88ae.jpg

I hope this helps a few folks here in their efforts to get paid fairly. You may now return to your regular viewing of CatMoron arguing Texas Insurance Law with Alltex.

[quote=“Authentic_Dad”]
I hope this helps a few folks here in their efforts to get paid fairly. You may now return to your regular viewing of CatMoron arguing Texas Insurance Law with Alltex.[/quote]

Autistic_Dad - Welcome back!

I am not back. I briefly stopped in to share something with other REAL roofing contractors. My intelligence and integrity prevent me from regularly participating at a site that allows scumbag idiots like you to make posts. You’re an embarrassment to the industry.

But you are back - And you are an embarrassment to true Intelligence, and true Integrity. As for embarrassing “the [construction] industry” - try that nonsense on someone else. As for embarrassing corrupt insurers/adjusters in “The Industry”…they don’t need my help. Their disgusting and predatory flim-flam market conduct speaks for itself.

Can’t you come up with something original? You truly are a major league dumb ass.

Something original…hmmmm…something original…ummmmmm…

Oh…yea…Got it!! You are still an arrogant ass.

(Sorry…Yikes - That is not totally original…I borrowed it from others that know about your online antics, and puffery).

[quote=“CatContractor”]

Something original…hmmmm…something original…ummmmmm…

Oh…yea…Got it!! You are still an arrogant ass.

(Sorry…Yikes - That is not totally original…I borrowed it from others that know about your online antics, and puffery).[/quote]

My antics? LMAO I believe everyone saw the thread posted by Alltex referencing your “popularity” at the Cat Adjuster Website. You appeared to be as welcome there as a turd in a punch bowl. Regardless, I’d rather be known as an arrogant ass than a blubbering moron, as you are. I’ve also spoken with several Texas Contractors who’ve met you and seen you in action in person. To a man, they confirmed you’re at least as big a dipshit in real life as you are online. LMAO!

[quote=“Authentic_Dad”]

Yeah…Corrupt adjusters just hate the rocks they are hiding under to be overturned no matter where they are. To an arrogant ass, Contractors and Consumers that benefit from my efforts far outweigh any Texas Contractors you have supposedly spoken with.

And don’t flatter yourself - You have plenty that think poorly of your antics.
And - You are sooo clueless as to who knows who in Texas - and across the nation - and what they quietly do for others. …Totally clueless.

So LYAO - It will take the weight off your shoulders…

[quote=“CatContractor”]

[quote=“Authentic_Dad”]

Yeah…Corrupt adjusters just hate the rocks they are hiding under to be overturned no matter where they are. To an arrogant ass, Contractors and Consumers that benefit from my efforts far outweigh any Texas Contractors you have supposedly spoken with.

And don’t flatter yourself - You have plenty that think poorly of your antics.
And - You are sooo clueless as to who knows who in Texas - and across the nation - and what they quietly do for others. …Totally clueless.

So LYAO - It will take the weight off your shoulders…[/quote]

Here’s the deal dipstick, and I’ll go real slow so you have a chance of getting it. Unlike you, I don’t have an agenda here. I’m not here to pick up consulting fees or press my agenda. I call how I see it and if what I say or provide can help some people, that’s great. If not, it makes me little difference. Being the most popular or least popular person posting here doesn’t impact my real life or my business one iota.

If what you post here is any indication of what kind of businessman you are, I can’t possibly see how you could help anybody. You’re a genuine freaking lunatic dude. The crap you continuously post does absolutely nothing to help anybody’s bottom line. In your world, everyone should hate the insurance companies and do everything possible to milk them dry. In my world, I realize 75% or more of my revenue each year initially comes from the insurance companies. Arguably, THEY ARE MY CUSTOMER. I firmly believe it is morons like you at one end and ones like Empire at the other end who are the worst enemies of good, honest Contractors.

I’m done responding to you half wit. You can go back to devoting your time to post cut and paste BS from the internet that helps nobody.

[quote=“Authentic_Dad”]

Yeah…Corrupt adjusters just hate the rocks they are hiding under to be overturned no matter where they are. To an arrogant ass, Contractors and Consumers that benefit from my efforts far outweigh any Texas Contractors you have supposedly spoken with.

And don’t flatter yourself - You have plenty that think poorly of your antics.
And - You are sooo clueless as to who knows who in Texas - and across the nation - and what they quietly do for others. …Totally clueless.

So LYAO - It will take the weight off your shoulders…

Here’s the deal dipstick, and I’ll go real slow so you have a chance of getting it. Unlike you, I don’t have an agenda here. I’m not here to pick up consulting fees or press my agenda. I call how I see it and if what I say or provide can help some people, that’s great. If not, it makes me little difference. Being the most popular or least popular person posting here doesn’t impact my real life or my business one iota.

If what you post here is any indication of what kind of businessman you are, I can’t possibly see how you could help anybody. You’re a genuine freaking lunatic dude. The crap you continuously post does absolutely nothing to help anybody’s bottom line. In your world, everyone should hate the insurance companies and do everything possible to milk them dry. In my world, I realize 75% or more of my revenue each year initially comes from the insurance companies. Arguably, THEY ARE MY CUSTOMER. I firmly believe it is morons like you at one end and ones like Empire at the other end who are the worst enemies of good, honest Contractors.

I’m done responding to you half wit. You can go back to devoting your time to post cut and paste BS from the internet that helps nobody.

More over-the-top and tired rhetoric from a guilty conscience drowning in low self-esteem. Old Yeller and Cujo showed similar symptoms.

Your compliance with your insurer “customers”, who are trying to unfairly and illegally control the fair contractor market - harm consumers, and gain illegal windfall profits accordingly, is what other contractors now and upcoming need protection against.

the waste calculator looks like a good tool to have in the box .
that’s the kind of posts this site needs !
thanks

And less of the personal attack posts, please…

If starters & cap are counted as separate items (like I believe they should be) 10% waste is enough for practically every roof done with common shingles.

It’s a very nice waste calculator though.

[quote="-Axiom-"]If starters & cap are counted as separate items (like I believe they should be) 10% waste is enough for practically every roof done with common shingles.

It’s a very nice waste calculator though.[/quote]

IMHO, most gables can be done with 5% and most hips with 10% when cap and starter are broken out separately (as it should be). That goes up when you add a bunch of dormers or any geometry where valley is added.

We have tried to estimate breaking out cap and starter while lowering the waste. We were lucky to get 1 in 30 or worse to agree to pay that way. Many actually seemed to get angry that we even attempted this. IMHO, most of the Adjusters are clueless about roofing and certainly can’t follow my math which I believe is why they didn’t like the approach of breaking out cap and starter separately.

Chris, I would strongly suggest you simply pass over and ignore my posts from this point forward. Really simple if you think about it. No way for me to offend you if you don’t read my posts.

[quote=“Authentic_Dad”]

Chris, I would strongly suggest you simply pass over and ignore my posts from this point forward. Really simple if you think about it. No way for me to offend you if you don’t read my posts.[/quote]

Not as a personal attack - But - Said it before - It’s like reading the daily comics…Only better!

Hi,

Personally I find this calculator too cumbersome. I was looking for a simple roof replacement calculator to give me a rough estimate based on my state. I found one at American Roof Repair.

Charlie

[quote=“charliefitzgerald”]Hi,

Personally I find this calculator too cumbersome. I was looking for a simple roof replacement calculator to give me a rough estimate based on my state. I found one at American Roof Repair.

Charlie[/quote]

It likely is cumbersome for some. It is designed for contractors who want accurate estimates of material as opposed to those who are only looking for “rough” estimates.

How exactly does one accurately price a job based on a “rough” estimate?

It’s primarily intended to prove the correct waste percentage to adjusters who want to estimate every gable at 10% and hip at 15% while bundling in cap and starter. It provides mathematical fact, for most roofs, that this generic system used by the adjusters is inaccurate.

I’m not sure what is cumbersome about filling in 5 values unless your approach to estimating doesn’t yield those numbers. I’m not sure how to accurately estimate a roof without knowing the roof area, hip/ridge/perimeter and valley length. However, to each their own. I’m sure the insurance adjusters are all too happy to have contractors eating $300 to $1,000 or more using rough estimates. That’s rough on your bottom line.

Question for you. Why do you measure the valley length to determine the number of course rows of shingles you will need? If you measure the common rafter isn’t that a more accurate representation of what you will need going into the valley. It looks like you have put a lot of work into this and I just want to make sure I understand. Is what you are doing the same as taking the number of rows of shingles going into the valley and divide that by 78 (the number of shingles in a square) and then multiplying it by .42 which would compensate of the 15inch mfg spec overlap.

n / 78 x .42=waste per valley?