Roof T.O. w//2nd Lyr CDX, Storm Damage Repair

I am doing a storm damage tear-off and reroof of a home and detached garage which both were struck by a large tree from a wind storm recently.

Garage was bid for a 2 layer T.O. but there actually is a hidden 3rd layer.

House showed only a 1 layer tear-off, but we just notived that the shingles curling down on the eave edge concealed a 2nd layer of CDX decking with another layer of shingles sanwiched in between the top and bottom layer of decking.

What is my proper course of action in dealing with the Insurance company regarding these hidden and unforseen additional shingle layers and additional layer of decking on the home?

The curled shingles and the paint hid the fact that there was another deck underneath.

What is the responsibility of the insurance company for this?

The HO’s do not have the funds for the job in the first place, on their own, without the insurance claim paying for it, and so far the insurance company agreed with all of my measurements.

I will be getting change orders signed off by the homeowners, firstly before I contact the insurance company about this, so they do not impede the job progress.

The insurance is with the “Good Hands” people

Thanks,

Ed

I have emailed you call me.

Ed, it’s possible that GTP has you all fixed up but in any case, here’s how I approach anything like this:

Homeowner maintenance items (i.e. rotten decking due to trees crowding the roof & should have been cut back -or- gutters filled with leaves & backing water up onto a roof deck) in about 90% of the cases will NOT be paid for by insurance.

What you have, IMO, is NOT h.o. maintenance - it’s an integrated component of the roof, albeit a craptacular one.

You can’t be expected to provide a “reasonable & customary” (important phrasing) guarantee against leakage unless you remove all of these components. Now, if all this added weight made for a badly sagging primary deck then this is an altogether separate issue.

But as for the extra layers, insurance should be willing to pay for removal down to the bare ORIGINAL roof deck. Take copious amounts of digital photos & be sure to keep the photos angled so that other parts of the yard or a street prove your location & that it’s the correct house.

Call the insurer before you proceed; discuss this with the adjuster & if this person isn’t available because they are “ALL in another STATE” right then, contact the 800 #'s customer care. Go on record with your situation. Explain that you will only be able to hold off for so long before complete repairs have to move forward. Be extra sure to document what day / time / length of the call when you spoke to this customer service person & what their name is + any extension if they are willing to provide it.

If you do get to speak to the adjuster who handled the initial insurance estimate, be sure to detail all the call specifics as noted /. If they don’t want to come look (might not have time in the next 2 days or so) then ask if photographic evidence will provide all they need for you to proceed.

Have a definitive breakdown on what your price point is per item you have to work on as well as a new & complete figure for the added repairs.

If all goes well, what you’ll be getting is a supplemental payment for repair work. Be sure that you’re getting a full payment on the deductible & provide ASAP to the adjuster a receipt detailing the payments made by the insured (homeowner). I have found that supplementals like this can be quite profitable (they don’t cost more per square than other parts, but it’s a bonus in the way of something like extra squares but on the demo only).

A supplemental is essentially a 2nd (or 3rd) check paid out by the insurer & it is sent after the work is done & extra peayments are required (i.e. their measured size comes up incorrectly low or extra repairs are required like a component they didn’t notice or provide for such as a proven 40 year shingle where they paid for a 30 yeear).

I hope this helps you out & you don’t get any trouble from the STATE who has it ALL.

Between GTP, youself and a Cat Adjusters forum, I think I am getting my butt covered for the additional supplemental work required.

If you want to see the photos, Im have altready resized them for the Cat Adjusters forum at the following link:

catadjuster.org/Forums/tabid … .aspx#5440

You intelligent roofers out there may be able to use that forum for some additional resouces in the future.

Thanks,

Ed

Well, here is the current update to the goings on with this insurance deal.

I e-mailed the photos of the additional layer of shingles sandwiched in between the additional layer of plywood decking and was given the authorization to proceed as planned.

We will wind up replacing about 39 of up to 16 foot rafters that were deflected or cracked or knocked out of position in addition to 4 longer hip rafters, 2 on the garage and 2 on the house.

I have signed extra work orders approved by the home owners for this work to be done at a time plus materials basis.

After I spoke with the adjuster, to confirm the e-mail correspondance, the insurance adjuster stated that they have to use their formula for the additional work from their software program, which I believe is exactimate. He did not tell me what their figures are and stated he would have to wait until the end of the job to recalculate the adjustment.

What if their per lineal foot figures differ substantially from the hourly rates we have involved in the project?

What if their figures for 1" x 6" plank board decking is different than my contracted and approved change order agreement states, for 550 feet at $ 3.50 per foot?

What if they do not jive with my price of 2.00 per square foot for plywood decking replacement and dropping down to 1.50 per square foot forthe additional layer of decking and the cost of .50 cents per square foot for the additional tear-off cost for the extra hidden layer of asphalt shingles discovered hidden in between the 2 layers of plywood decking?

I know, this has not happened yet, but I would like to be prepared for the discussion beforehand, when and if these points do come up after the project is completed.

Thank You,

Ed

If the insurance company will not pony up the extra money for a code violation i would be surprised. Someone has to pay for it so if the ins company does not then it looks like the homeowner will have to. Not much you can do about it. Thats why when i run into those problems i get infront of the home owner and let them know i can not continue without them knowing they might have to pay for it.

Ed, it seems like your buds over on the Adjuster’s forum might be a better resource than us.

I would also suggest you try to get a PM to that guy who had the flurry of posts about 1 or 2 months ago in relation to insurers & their estimates; see what kind of info or suggestions he might be able to provide.

I will say this, however - the posts he had seemed like pre-planned commentary on AllState & insurers as a whole; like maybe he was posting the same thing on a lot of different contractor related discussion boards.

From what I think I know, however, the insurer can say “this is all we’ll pay” but in reality, so long as you’re not asking for retail cut & graded diamond prices in a wholesale silver mining market then they don’t really have a leg to stand on. This means that if your prices are consistent with the market & the going rate, i.e. LABOR + PARTS + SALES TAX + a 30% overhead & profit, then they can argue but in the end they do need to pay your figure.

What is always a good thing is if you can get the insurer to give you THEIR price first & then if your figure was going to come in lower then theirs, rise up to meet it. If they want YOUR figure first, then I suggest you price the job out as a whole - try to NOT provide a breakdown of components if you can avoid it - then add about a bonus 5 - 10% on top & see if they accept your figure (again, this added 5 - 10 is if they want to see your #'s first). It’s always easier to reduce your price than to ask for more.

If they do want a breakdown of components, then separate everything out & add that extra figure I mentioned above.

So long as you’re confident in your information, educated about how you did things & have good photographic details about what was required, they usually will acquiesce to your pricing, albeit with supplementals.

That’s MY opinion on it, anyhow.

Thanks Ranch,

Yeah, I remember Googling that guys user name and found him on the cat-adjusters forum or some other relevant forum too.

I will look his posts and user name up.

I usually am one of the higher priced contractors, by a significant amount, compared to the local yokels around here, but my rates are my rates that I need to stand by to justify being in business and reaching the desired profit margins to cover the overhead and other stuff.

I want the adjusters totals before I submit to him, but regardless, are they not obligated to pay what the out of pocket actual costs the home owner incurred in the contract and the change orders required to facilitate the remediation?

Ed

Well, Ed, maybe you can ask the homeowner to let you examine their policy. You’ll need the EXACT endorsements that AllHate sent out; I’d suggest this might show you what they said they’re on the hook for (it usually has some kind of language that is state mandated explaining the insured’s basic rights).

My point stated in the prior post is to be fair in your quote; don’t go into a 60% Overhead & Profit range when the more commonly accepted is 25% to 30%.

Have good details on what you did, photographic evidence of the damage you HAD to repair & maybe even itemized lists of the parts required. It doesn’t hurt to throw a tape measure into your pics for scale purposes.