Racking vs. Pyramid

I suck at using search so lets have it. I wanna hear everyones opinion on racking vs. pyramidding. I was originally taught to pyramid my shingles and did so for most of my roofing career. The guy I work for now wants us to rack the shingles, he insists its easier and doesnt make a difference in our area (S.E. Massachusetts) whether its pyramid or not. I disagree but he is the boss and he pays me good money to do things his way. So help me out with this argument and lets hear your opinion

I don’t think it matters too much what we think. There is the way that the manufacturer wants them installed. That way is typically the stepped method. No Racking…

you rack, you get no warranty…

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Several manufactures have shingles that require the verticle rack method.Certainteed premium designer shingles such as the Grand Manor,Highland Slate and IMO the Carriage House looks better racked.

The Owens Corning Berkshire collection also requires a verticle rack method.

IMO racking tabs shows a definate pattern.Stair stepped IMO blends and seals much better than racked.

I know people who only rack because that is the only way they can keep the verticle lines straight.

A 6" offset takes skill and craftmanship as well as attention to detail to maintain a straight verticle line pattern from rake to rake.,over dormers and back counts with the stair stepped application.

And racking Arch’s is just tarded.

The last time i shingles i always by the way use the pyraimid style i did not snap a line and adjusted as the roof needed to be as walls valleys or what have and get it straight from one corner. Now i shingled for 10 years so i can get away with that and not have nails showing or a 1/2 inch of a shingle hung above of the correct placement. Now to me racking is the lazy way of shingling. On my crews if i caught them racking well they would be fired that minute.

[quote=“Roofmaster417”]
And racking Arch’s is just tarded.[/quote]

But why is it tarded? Thats what I want more insight into. Other than the warranty void, why is it not good practice

[quote=“fourthcliff”]

[quote=“Roofmaster417”]
And racking Arch’s is just tarded.[/quote]

But why is it tarded? Thats what I want more insight into. Other than the warranty void, why is it not good practice[/quote]

I don’t know that it will void the warranty. They get racked to an extent in tight areas between dormers, etc.
Stepping and even changing the pattern a bit helps break up the pattern so that the actual pattern is less discernable. They really look out of place with staggered vertical lines at 3’ intervals all over the house.

My reply was in reference to racking architectural shingles.

That is tarded. Is your boss making you rack architectural shingles?

Racking 3 tabs is preference.I won’t and don’t. But that is my preference.

FYI, pyramid is way faster & the shooters arent waiting on one guy to start it up the right rake, skip nailing the under shingle, crossing over each other & getting the airlines tangled. I always use the pyramid method, i get in the middle of a 24 foot pick & start my pyramid, that way both the shooter to my right & the shooter to my left can start gunning them on imediately. The only advantage your boss would gain by racking & stacking is less waste. Not much waste with archs anyway. The only time i rack n stack is when im shooting alone, even then i go 2 wide, less movement, less hook blading to do. Demonstrate to him my pyramid method, he`ll love how fast it gets done.

Another thing is that when you rack the seams always look worse. they are more visible when they are only 6 inches apart and run vertically up the roof every 3 feet. Just looks worse.
It is not necessarily faster or slower. If its the way you do it then of course that way will be faster…for you.
Its like a California valley, its just not the best way to do it! lol

[quote=“Roofmaster417”]My reply was in reference to racking architectural shingles.

That is tarded. Is your boss making you rack architectural shingles?

Racking 3 tabs is preference.I won’t and don’t. But that is my preference.[/quote]

Ya we are racking archs. I am at a point in my roofing career that Im starting to get a lot of my own roofs and I pyramid on my jobs. I would like to do the same on his but he is just so stuck on his ways. He is a great roofer otherwise, he has taught me a lot, its just this one thing that really bugs me. I hate having to defend the technique for him when another contractor asks why we are racking and that its not the right way. It sucks cause I agree with him, but on the other hand I want to defend the work I am doing, ya know what I mean?

Now that is tarded.Geeeezz., Sounds to me he might have taught you some bad habits.

IMO it is in your best interest to break the habits and distance yourself from the source of these habits.

3-tab = rack
arch = pyramid

This is the result of racking 3 tab asphalt shingles.

http://www.roofingcontractorreview.com/image.html?format=raw&id=44&type=img

When the shingle is bent back, it breaks the fibers. Especially bad for 3 tabs because they break at the cutout where there is less material. Arch’s will break at the laminated layer near the last nail.

As for speed, anytime you have to lift up a shingle that is already laid on the roof, you are wasting time. Which can be a bad thing for speed demons and those who don’t charge enough for their work.

That is a nasty rack job Dennis. I am doing a reroof on a roof that was racked with arch’s.The roof is only a couple months old.I will take some pix and post them tomorrow evening.

stair case the archs and rack the 3tabs.
I have never stair cased 3tabs. You cant keep the vertical lines straight at all.
I was always concerned with keeping the vertical lines straight.
The “lines” are a trough designed to guide the water straight down the roof and keep the water from moving under the shingles onto the nails.
It is imperitive for me to use 3 tabs on very low slope roofs.

[quote=“roof-lover”].
I have never stair cased 3tabs. You cant keep the vertical lines straight at all.
.[/quote]

we always ran them like a staircase and they were straight always, use a chalk line once in awhile and its no problem…

[offtopic]Other than the warranty void, why is it not good practice[/offtopic]

Aesthetically, racking will normally show seams, color variations better. Functionally, shingles that are “racked” are more vulnerable to wind shear.

Sadly, the boss is always right… If he wants you to rack then my only advice is to “pyramid” 4 shingles and then bring the 5th all the way back in line with your first. It’s still a cheat but better then a full blown “rack”.

I spoke with Certainteed, Owens Corning and Tamko within the past 4 hours. All said the same thing about racking arch’s. It is not a proper installation procedure period. It is wrong and they will not deviate from the proper installation method they each have tested.

However, the material will still be covered under the material warranty for product failure but not against material failure as a result of improper installations.

Tamko and Certainteed both laughed thinking no one could be that dumb to install materials against manufacture spec in that manner.

Any one with any amount of hands on field experience following manufactures installation instruction and or continued education would know that already.