Question about subbing

I apologize for the ramble.

I am starting to see that the rate just varies in the area you live in and how hard times are.

TheBayCompany, I understand what you are saying. What I am saying is that I figure in 20 percent of each job to go towards labor. A 10000 dollar job would mean 2000 in labor. The rest of the 8000 goes to pay the workmans comp, the insurance, the advertising, the materials and dumpster. Everything I need to stay in business from week to week. You also said it would take 3 guys 3 days but the job I have been referring to, 2 of my guys got it done in 46 hours of man time. Thats 23 hours a guy which means if you look at it that way, they both made a little more than 38 an hour. It doesnt come out to that because I pay by the square but I still say that is a good amount to make hourly. I also had 1750 for labor invested into this job. My gross profit on this job is no where near where you tend to believe it is. Its actually no more than 5 percent of the job. ( I am trying to put most of the money the company makes back into the company in order to be able to grow)

RooferJ, What is actually killing this industry is all the drug addict, alcoholic loser, high schol dropouts who dont care about the work they do and like to see how fast they can put on a bundle of shingles. Obviously youre smarter than that and thats why you have people working for you. I know it would be hard to find good quality people without a good pricetag comming along with them. I had no idea what a good fair price for a sub would be. Out of 41 one guys that I have hired in the past 3 years, 37 of them have been loser deadbeat drug addicts. The other 4 that are still working for me are getting paid probably better than they deserve. It is a hard business to be in as we all know.

From johnk and bushog it seems that they would not complain about making 875 dollars for either two long days of work or 3 short days so I guess I really dont understand why some feel okay about the price and some dont?

Like I have said, I never even thought about subbing before and have never wanted to but might have to in order to get these homes finished before snow. Thats why I am asking the questions. After going through a lot of paperwork stuff and looking at it and youre guys responses from all over the country I have gotten a lot better idea of how it works so thank you to you guys.

So my last question (for now) about it is this :
I know there are tons of people around this area dying for work, Should I hire more of them regularly and have the my current guys split apart and work with the new ones so I can eb assured they are doing it to my quality specifications? Would it be fair to them to hire them even though I know it may not last for them or would it be best to be honest right away and let them know that this is probably only temporary unless you really stand out?

Thanks all, Take Care.

All the facts are in(finally)

And it looks like you pay good BAMBAM.
Good job. And you charge enough for the Job.
GOOD JOB!

Hire whomever will answer the call and impress.
Be on the job at all times when they start.
I beat the crew to the job.

Regardless of what ever has come out of his mouth,
I know soon after the compressor starts whether i am ever going to use that roofer again or not.
Old dogs don’t like to learn new tricks.
If they are not going to nail it right
right in front of my face on the first day
They wont ever nail it right no matter how many times you threaten them.
good roofers are hard to find.

… if your just sending one of your guys when their done to inspect(like you said), I think your making a mistake.

Rooflover, I hope you arent being sarcastic about the paying well enough because I do feel like they get paid plenty good to not want to go anywhere else. I do get to the jobsite at the same time or a little before the foreman which is 645 am. Everyone else shows up 5 minutes later and the first nail is in a shingle at 7am(when the noise ordinance is over).

What you said about using a roofer again or not is 100 percent correct. I can tell soon enough if they are someone I want to say completed a job with our company name on it.

The thing about employees going to inspect afterwards was said because I thought it would be a good idea to do after I had a subcrew work on a job considering I would not know how good their work actually is or is not. My regular employees I know do a good job and I have high standards. Now that I am not going that way I dont have to worry about it.

I am trying to do what I believe many of you who post on this website do, change the name of roofers. Make it something people are proud to do and homeowners do not feel like they will just burn them or feel like they are all shady and not to be nervous about needing a new roof.

Around here a walkable 2 layer tear off would get you 65 to 70 a square.

Subs in Pkilly area get $60 per sq for such a roof as described.Low or not they stay busy and put down 1000s of squares a day to make huge profits.26sq would be 4 men at 150 a day.So they have 900 to pay thier taxes,insurance and profit.And if they are running 10-20 jobs a day they are doing pretty good.Trust me I dont condone nor participate in subbing but i am very aware.I work for a union company and our overhead is huge.When i estimate a roof I have to get 600 a day per man just for labor.

i don’t take advantage of people when times get hard myself if i didn’t wanna pay the rate, i would hire a foreman and have him run it, or your gonna have a bunch of butchers that get sour when they find the money running thin… i pay my 2 roofers 200 per day on the books regardless of hours on a hard job thats not a 2 day hit like the one i’m on now i hire laborers… we have a shingle hoist …and a dump truck to make it easy we hardly ever have to throw shingle on the ground i’ve build 30’ chutes out of 7" round duct work shaped like a slide and we even use gas powered leaf blowers the clean all the dust before prepping for felt i have cap guns you name it …point being is that i have all the equipment to do the job timely and i’d never work a job that if one day i have a problem and it doesnt get done i don’t make any money…you should pay them either 20 hourly or by the day and cover all the insurance if you wanna feel just because at one time or another we’ve all been there and said “man i should have gotten just a little more” that makes all the difference money is the true motivator i wouldn’t cut it down to the line and wonder if my jobs were gonna come out good another thing is i never rush or bitch because i found that it never helps sorry i’m a motor mouth

No, its not a fair price.For example:

I have a 18 sq. one layer and paying our sub, $1000.00 plus all landfill fees Reimbursed, and pay $2.00 per ft. all flashing done. This is on a 7/12 easy access roof job.

Your adding another layer of tear and expenses landfill.
You should be more at along the lines of $3,000.00 +/-. But, then again it depends on your business practices.

This would be more fair to the Sub Contractor.

20$ per additional sq on a walker is very fair in my area.

Why not let them pay their own comp its not that high I just can’t see giving a guy 20 percent but if they do it for that much plus your banking on the fact everything goes smooth for them in pittsburgh only the mexicans work for those rates except when homedepot uses them and they rip the wrong roof and 4 guys might and this is a big might be able to strip 2 layers and drive that much shingle I doubt it though for me every hundred I put out on a guy costs me about 40 in taxes and comp so I couldn’t touch that job for that price and the dollar does vary state to state but not by almost 80 percent I feel for most of you come to pgh its easy to 90-100 per sq for walkable roofs sounds like in your areas their to cut throat see just because you sell a job you should make 200 xs more than the subs and if it leaks the sub is usually the one that has to fix it sorry just my opinion

I was talking about each additional layer of tear-off @20$ per sq.

I probably read this thread 20 times and totally misread bambams first post about prices for 2-layers(must be my dislexia) all my prices I gave in this thread were for 1 layers. :shock: