No O&P ok what to do now?

The insurance companies are becoming more and more reluctant to allow general contractors overhead and profit. Just supplemented for 8 hours of supervisory time and it was approved. Maybe this will help…

Did you use the residential supervisor line item in the labor only section?

Ray, I think you need to give them a link to LMB’s website. After reading his “brief” articles on P&C Insurance Companies paying O&P, if they don’t slit their wrists first, they will likely pay you the O&P. Good luck!

Use LMB’s help to get O&P .His program helped me get WITHOUT QUESTION O&P on a $51,000 job.State Farm never even complained.Just said they would.After Christmas they’ll get the 2nd supplemental with the cert for completion.They still owe.

Were you smokin sumthin when you called them? :lol:

Dstew,
I used the on site evaluation and/ or supervisor per hour.

Kind of the same topic, i had a problem with Liberty Mutual getting O&P. They didnt want to approve O&P on the roof because we are primarily a roofing contractor, but we do have a general contractors license to do all trades. They finally told me that if i send in all my subcontractors invoices, then they would approve the o&p based on their numbers.

This job had:
Gutters
Fascia
Wood work
Interior repairs
Roof replacement.

Can they do this?

Also, can some one post a link to that LMB website?

[quote=“RoofingRevolution”]Kind of the same topic, i had a problem with Liberty Mutual getting O&P. They didnt want to approve O&P on the roof because we are primarily a roofing contractor, but we do have a general contractors license to do all trades. They finally told me that if i send in all my subcontractors invoices, then they would approve the o&p based on their numbers.

This job had:
Gutters
Fascia
Wood work
Interior repairs
Roof replacement.

Can they do this?[/quote]

They can and they do. Supposedly, if you have a GC License, they will pay it up front. That’s what I was told until we got our license in Alabama, then it changed. LOL However, we’ve sent in the sub invoices on multiple jobs and have gotten O&P paid on everything. For 20% on the roof, I’d sub it out if I were you rather than build it yourself.

I figured that. Im in Louisiana, and iv just started to get hit with it. lol

So lets say the claim is for a $20,000 roof ONLY. I can turn in my full invoice for $20,000 plus the $4,000 O&P, with an attached invoice from my sub(for $20k). And they will pay the o&p… or is multiple trades required?

[quote=“RoofingRevolution”]I figured that. Im in Louisiana, and iv just started to get hit with it. lol

So lets say the claim is for a $20,000 roof ONLY. I can turn in my full invoice for $20,000 plus the $4,000 O&P, with an attached invoice from my sub(for $20k). And they will pay the o&p… or is multiple trades required?[/quote]

Right, wrong or indifferent, the insurance companies will rarely pay O & P for roof only whether it is subbed or not. At the moment, it seems rather challenging to get the insurance companies to pay O & P on jobs with multiple trades. They’re back to the “complexity” BS.

Yeah, i figured that. I was just having wishful thinking i guess. lol

Complexity, the old fall back to deny GCOP. And it usually comes from a desk adjuster who hasn’t been on the property.

You should be trying for GCOP on every claim. That complexity BS will not hold up when litigated and the adjusters/insurance carriers know it.

Get your customer(the insured) informed and involved with the process and you will be amazed at how often you can get GCOP.

Happy Holidays to all!

[quote=“PeteW”]Complexity, the old fall back to deny GCOP. And it usually comes from a desk adjuster who hasn’t been on the property.

You should be trying for GCOP on every claim. That complexity BS will not hold up when litigated and the adjusters/insurance carriers know it.

Get your customer(the insured) informed and involved with the process and you will be amazed at how often you can get GCOP.

Happy Holidays to all![/quote]

I have discussed this with some fairly powerful attorneys specializing in insurance. I’ve also researched the internet on the case law fairly extensively. If only it were as straight forward as you would attempt to indicate. We get O&P quite often but not as often as I feel we should.

I have an Allstate claim where 5 trades are involved. The desk adjuster has denied O&P stating that the homeowner could’ve scheduled the trades AND that they all could’ve worked on the home at the same time. This job includes windows, garage doors, gutters, roofing, and interior. I have argued that the trades couldn’t have worked together at the the same time; it creates a safety hazard if roofers are working and the crews below the roof are working on windows or garage doors, they risk being injured by falling debris. On top of the fact that the roof and gutters can’t be R&R at the same times either. The desk adjuster is still stating that this doesn’t meet the “complexity guidelines” I asked him to define complexity and he simply said it was determined case by case and not all claims are the same, so he couldn’t. Any other ways I could argue this and win?

My 2 cents: What could have happened, but didn’t happen, is irrelevant. 5 trades is enough. To me, that does constitute “complexity”. I’d take the discussion to a supervisor who does know what the “complexity” is! (And, don’t let the desk adjuster know you’re going over his/her head) Stand your ground. Try to come back to the argument from a different angle and, yes, definitely get the homeowner in on the conversation.

We don’t go after O&P very often. Guess that’s why I’m so strident about it. When we ask, we know it’s deserved. Have your ducks in a row and don’t be afraid to come off slightly miffed about this and to a supervisor.

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This is from my Restoration AI Facebook page. www.facebook.com/Restoration AI

Overcoming Adjuster Objections - 6

You’ve included 10 & 10 O&P with your estimate. The Adjuster is declining to pay O&P due to “lack of complexity”.

Response: Please define complexity?

Adjuster: “Coordinating multiple subcontractors simultaneously, more ambiguous bullshit, blah, blah, blah.”

Response: If I can explain to you how this job has more than sufficient complexity then it stands to reason you will approve O&P?"

Adjuster: “I’m listening.”

  1. We are a licensed GC (or acting as the GC if you’re not licensed). All trades are being subcontracted. As GC, we are responsible for screening and selecting each of those subcontractors.
  2. Each trade requires additional onsite presence, support and supervision. Contrary to what must be popular belief, we cannot simply send subcontractors a work order and be done with it.
  3. Each additional trade extends the final payment date by at least a week or longer which puts pressure on our cash flow. We are not paid upfront and often are lucky to get 25% of the job amount paid prior to the job being completed. However, as each subcontractor completes their work, they expect to be paid by us immediately. We in turn have to wait until the job is complete, we invoice you, wait at least 7 or 10 days until the recoverable depreciation check is received by the HO and most often wait more than a month or two until the mortgage company endorses the depreciation check. Our cash is tied up for months.
  4. Additional office and project management overhead are required for ordering and scheduling material deliveries for each trade. Time is spent when the inevitable problems crop up with materials, the wrong materials are delivered or additional materials are required.
  5. Each additional trade that we assume responsibility for increases the risk of anything from a small problem to a catastrophe occurring that we must get involved in, invest time in resolving and often invest financial resources to satisfy the Customer.
  6. Now just imagine the job has been completed for 6 months, a year or longer. There is a problem with one of the trades. Who do you think the Customer calls and expects to handle that problem? Not the subcontractor. And if that subcontractor, for whatever reason, will not honor their workmanship warranty, we end up coming out of pocket to have the problem resolved. At minimum, we invest additional project management time contacting the subcontractor, coordinating their visit to the property and meeting them at the property to make certain the problem is resolved properly.

I realize if you say roofing, siding and gutters real fast, it doesn’t sound like much. I hope now though, you can see it is anything but simple and is in fact, quite complex. I haven’t quite finished though. Here’s the biggest reason we are requiring O&P in order to act as GC and manage all the trades.

Our mutual customer, the policy holder, is strongly requesting that we do. They told us they have no construction knowledge, no experience working with subcontractors and definitely do not have the time to take off work multiple days to meet subcontractors and go through the selection process. All I’m doing here is attempting to save you from the inevitable call you’re going to get from your policy holder if we have to tell them we cannot manage all their repairs because you denied O&P.

Thank you for patiently listening to my explanation. Had this job been simple instead of complex, my response would have been equally short and simple. In fact, we wouldn’t even be having this conversation

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If that fails, have the homeowner call Allstate and start working their way up management demanding O&P be paid. This is the easiest way to be approved for supplemental items anyway.

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ok thanks for the reply. The adjuster has the homeowner thinking I am just being greedy so I’ll try and explain it to him. I will put a call into the supervisor today and update you on what happens. Wish me luck!

Jenni Cook

205-655-ROOF(7663)

**7127 Gadsden Hwy. **

Ste. 201

Trussville,Al 35173

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Thank you! That’s certainly a good bit of valid points that I wouldn’t have thought of right now. He hasn’t called back yet but I do feel like I have more ammo when the time comes.