Thanks for the comments-The topic was started so that ones can compare experiences, brain-storm and share what helps to counter anti-contractor/anti-consumer conduct by insurers in Texas, and elsewhere,
RanchHand- You said:
“I can’t expect AllState to pay over the market price for this higher labor charge, however I should expect them to @ least pay a reasonable figure in general - which I am NOT getting on this roof.”*
Ed is right, (and it sounds like you all have met both decent and unscrupulous adjusters). You are a major part of “the market”. You know that.
Insurers that try to redefine what the market is, and what market pricing is by cliche’ comments like “we pay the prevailing rate” verses “we pay the prevailing rate range” are simply trying to bluff and bully hard working and honest businessmen into accepting less than fair.
It has worked in some areas, and ruined the livings of ones affected.
When enough new and existing contractors understand that insurance work should be raising their standard of living, not lowering it, they will tell insurers what is fair and reasonable, not the other way around.
In Florida, general, roofing and etc. contractors know this to be true, and dishonest insurers may not like it, but they collect money/premiums to pay out for sound & profitable business models, and the honest ones do not mind paying out accordingly.
From my 24 years of construction experience, with the last 15 years in general construction/reconstruction work that has, in general, centered around working with insured clients, I have had in-depth conversations & negotiations with many insurers, their upper and middle management, and their staff and independent adjuster associates & vendors.
I firmly believe, as many others do, that some of the industry is corrupt. They have carefully sculptured, using legitimate construction cost data from a given zip code/region, actual anticipated reconstruction costs for structures, (verses less expensive replacement costs), and factored homeowners premiums payments accordingly.
However, when paying daily and catastrophe loss claims though, insurers have been caught using NEW construction data verses the (35-50%+) more expensive REconstruction data, which has produced false loss claim values, and more company profits.
Even roofing contractors can agree that demolition and replacement of a roofing system is much more labor & expertise intensive/expensive than a new system, on a new structure, in a new development.
“I find that as a legal, fully insured roofing contractor, I am 40- 60% over priced for the ins. cos. Some of it might be sloppy pricing on my part- maybe not itemizing things correctly.”
Craftsman Publishing National Construction Estimator, with the Insurance Repair & Restoration cost book, (reconstruction program, or hard copy book) contains very similar reconstruction costs that insurers use for their loss claim value estimation adjustment factoring, in various areas of the country.
Teill, You may be right where you need to be in your cost estimating. If you are in “the market”, and you are in the pricing range of others in your area, then Allstate, and other insurers, should recognize & honor your price…everyday.
In fact, it may be that Allstate, State Farm, Safeco, USAA, Farmers management and adjusters have stopped messing with some Texas, Florida and California primary/general contractors, and specialty trade contractors, because they do not want to go to jail.
What can be helpful for all construction business contractors who want to enter insurance work, to make the money they should, for the dangerous and financially risky work it is, is to stick to the procedures and market price that is fair…yours.
Don’t gouge, and NEVER be apologetic for what is fair.
Should the adjuster tell you, or your client, “We can get it done for our price”, they can be very much in danger of;
- Hinting at filling the role of a contractor, an illegal thing to do/imply in Texas. You can’t both adjust, and act as a contractor.
- Trying to squeeze you out of your own market in an anti-trust, illegal kind of manner.
- Trying to influence your client to break contract with you, and/or use another contractor.
- Trying to subtly suggest your price is “unfair”, when theirs is low, and fixed.
- Trying to price fix / unfairly manipulate and undermine your market.
- Anti-competitive and economic suppression of your business.
- Deceptive trade practices intended to harm you.
- Business discrimination against you.
- Unfair economic advantage per their actions.
- Slick and veiled disparaging remarks that hurt your reputation, and livelihood.
- Unfair/fraudulent claim settlement actions against their clients.
- Tortuous interference of a contractual relationship.
- Other stuff.
I truly believe that both new and seasoned contractors that honestly, candidly and frankly discuss unfair/fraudulent insurer & adjuster conduct can protect their market, and neighbors, against predatory insurers, and the people who support them.
**Is there anyone here that is having an issue, or had an issue, with an adjuster in Texas, or elsewhere? **
P.S. I grew up in Miami, (Hialeah, Miami Lakes, Key Biscayne), and then moved to central Florida. Spent every other summer in Texas. Moved to Texas in 1994 after working Hurricane Andrew for 2+ years.
Due to weather events close to where “home” has been over the last 15 years, I’ve 12 post-catastrophe business markets under my belt.
Based on my (documented) experiences, certain insurers/adjusters are honorable, and some just work the public psyche through their business protocols, and pretend to be. Texas is a unique state that major insurers have benefited from by misleading and lying to their clients.
Work enough insurance work, and it becomes quite clear who is scamming their clients, and their own “adjusters”, and who isn’t.
The scammers need not mess with Texas contractors.