I know I know, beggars can't be choosers

I had originally planned on doing this job myself the past few years and was going to do it last year but my back went out and I didn’t do it. Then this year I decided it would be best to just let a crew come do it.

I mentioned I was going to get my roof done this year to a guy who roofs. He subs and told me just buy the materials and he would come out and do it (save me $1,000, nothing signed). He blew me off twice while I had a dumpster paid for in my driveway that he told me to get, so I said to hell with him. So then I was telling another person I know about it and he said he does roofing on the side and stopped doing it full time in 2017 and he would come over and help me.

I decided since I already had everything to take him on his offer and see how my back would hold up. We tore off the main roof and ice and watered, felt, and drip edge. I could tell by some of the things he did that maybe he wasn’t as experienced as I thought. I overruled him on how we did a few things, like I wanted the drip edge under the ice and water on the eave not over. Then after we get it all tore off, and all underlayment on he tells me he has never actually shingled lol.

Yeah, I wasn’t feeling to secure on the ice and water and was pretty sore so I decided it would be best at this to try and pay a crew to shingle the roof and do the tear off and everything on the garage before it rains. Or I was just going to rent scaffolding and give a go if nobody would finish it for me.

Thinking since I already started it nobody would give me a real warranty or even take the job I called a local roofing company that said he look at it. He said he usually doesn’t like taking over jobs but what I had done looked good, so he would shingle it and do all of the garage as well.

I bought all owens corning, got duration shingles, weather loc, and pro-armor. I asked him if his guys would do 6 nails, put starters on the rake and what not. He told me anyone who doesn’t do 6 nails is stupid and they would do whatever I wanted.

I have cameras on my house and while I can’t see the main roof I can see the garage. Looking them over, they did lift the step flashing and ice and water under it which I’m happy they did that. The only reason I see this is they bumped my camera, I didn’t have it set to see that low into the garage. What I’m not happy about is the fact they cut shingles on my felt, (which you can see in the felt), cut shingles after partially installing them instead of trimming them before (these are for the different courses). The guys nailed 5 nails instead of 6.

I specifically told the owner I wanted 6 nails and when the installers got here and went over everything with me I mentioned 6 nails to them.

My roof is a 6 pitch so I think 5 nails is ok but we agreed on 6 nails. I’m not going to make a huge fuss over it but I am going to show him the video (if he wants to see) of what I see and I’m interested on what he has to say.

If I had done it myself I would have done 6 nails every shingle and cut on a scrap shingle instead of the felt. I as well would have trimmed my courses BEFORE I nailed them down!

Granted the guy who did this was not the lead installer but he definitely needs told what not to do. I’m not a roofer but I am educated on proper technique. In the end I got what I paid for! Not 100% what I wanted but based off the road that lead me here, it’s good enough for what I paid I suppose.

I should note I have not paid yet, which is why the owner still needs to come back tomorrow (technically today)…I should be sleeping.

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Those durations are good itll be fine. I do 5 nails myself. Those observations really arent nothing to be worried about. Id look.where they nailed and the weak points like flashing and vents

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Unless code dictates otherwise 4 nails per shingle is perfectly fine. Although, i get being annoyed if he said otherwise. Cutting shingles on top of felt isn’t a big deal. Your felt now has 1000s nail holes in it, all of which are potential leaks of water gets under.

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Sir, none of your points are valid.

  1. The perimeter metal should have been over the underlayment on the rakes and eves.

  2. Rake Shingle starters are for roofers that were not trained to install rake perimeter metal.

3, dont freak out over someone You think is not sticking a 6th nail in.
I 5 nail my architects. It is really the correct number. But 4 nails is all that is required unless it is a dedicated high wind zone.
It is not to save money or time.
It is because that is what i believe is best
And i am not going to sit here and write a book on all the reasons why.

  1. We always cut the shingles over the felt.
    That is the responsible thing to do.
    So what if they make a mistake and cut into the felt.
    It rarely happens, and if it does, its ok.
    We dont drive our hook knifes pushing down and cutting into the surface like a traditional knife.
    Once we “hook” the knife into the surface,
    We actually pull UP and pull
    So as to not cut the surface of the material below it.
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I disagree, my points may not be “big deals” but I stated how I wanted my roof to be done and he agreed to it and it didn’t get nailed the way I was expecting. I will correct myself and say it is 5 nails not 4. I watched the video more closely and he was doing 5.

I’m sure the roof is solid but when someone tells you one thing and does another it makes you question what was really done.

Code does dictate my drip edge go UNDER at eaves.

R905.2.8.5 Drip Edge

A drip edge shall be provided at eaves and rake edges of shingle roofs. Adjacent segments of drip edge shall be overlapped not less than 2 inches (51 mm). Drip edges shall extend not less than 1/4 inch (6.4 mm) below the roof sheathing and extend up back onto the roof deck not less than 2 inches (51 mm). Drip edges shall be mechanically fastened to the roof deck at not more than 12 inches (305 mm) o.c. with fasteners as specified in Section R905.2.5. Underlayment shall be installed over the drip edge along eaves and under the drip edge along rake edges.

The guy already came and I paid him, he was irritated with me over mentioning they didn’t do 6 nails. I told him I appreciated it but, he did tell me 6 nails.

I did go up and I found this. I’m not going to send him the pictures, I simply just lifted the shingle and spread the tar over the nail. It looks like this was done about 3 times in same row. Overall I think the roof looks good.118642683_1608890352619248_8500997302668016886_n 118702817_946527292422819_4472511944588114296_n

If you live in a snow region, drip edge on top of ice and water is best practice.
Doing in this way,if any backup occurs under the drip edge it has ice and water underneath as a backup.

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I understand what you are saying. Code says it needs to go under at the eaves though in NY. Maybe they are more worried about rain damage than backed up snow? Sounds like running a small strip first then drip edge, then full strips would be the best idea. I have read the argument over this many times, at the end of the day I just did what code said.

I would think it be hard for snow to fill the gutter and rise up between the drip edge and get on the roof decking. Generally snow would rise where it can fall and snow can’t fall behind the drip edge. Unless wind gust through and back blows it up vertically I think I would rather protect against water more than snow.

One interesting note, when I tore off my roof it was felt the whole way, not a bit of ice and water ANYWHERE. It was built on 1993, but these houses were built cheap as can be.

The code is wrong…
Go ahead and chance it.

Unless you used a good ice and water shield

On 4/12 and below, it is guaranteed rotten wood during the next Roof replacement.
It works/ might mostly work on steeper roofs
But it is still wrong and flopping in the wind…

Who ever wrote that code had little experience.
Reminds me of a roof Recently
It was a 3/12
The last roofer put 2 plys of 30 pound felt over the eve metal.
Every piece of plywood along the eve had to be replaced.

It is underlayment first, then eve metal, then roofing cement or ice and water shield sandwiching the metal.

My spec is over and above.
It is the right way to do it.

The code you are reading is caveman spec
And barely works.
Gets you past the workmanship warranty though.

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Been putting down eave drip 1st for 40 years. 2X 90# an eaves before ice&water shield. Re roofed alot of those roofs with no rot. The ones that we tore off with rot had the drip over the underlayment. I learn from others mistakes, only good thing about being the last kid out of 7…

Ignore my advice and follow dark thirtys advice.
No cement or ice and water shield needed.
It will save you a ton of money and time.
A roofers dream.

I love wasting my time and money.

Don’t read well, do you?

Since we use our own I+W to go around skylights, we save the roll that come in the velux flashing kits just to put on top of the drip. Quicker than paying the ground guy to cut a ton of 6in strips.

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I use 6" vycor window flashing.

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Ok so the NY code is wrong and the Manufacturers installation instructions are wrong. I went with code and manufacturers instructions. It’s already been done that way.

Eave Preparation
2. Along eaves, install metal drip edge under the
WeatherLock underlayment.
Along rakes, apply WeatherLock underlayment first,
and put drip edge on top.

So you didnt put ice and water Or cement where you Really needed it (sandwiching the eve)

And you put Ice and water on the rakes where you Absolutely didnt need it…

Dang, these manufactures and codes have got you all messed up…

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That’s my favorite movie and I’ve seen it a thousand times! You know, the one where the homeowner gets the guy to do his roof on the side to “save $1,000”, then that guy flakes so he gets another to ‘help’ and then he doesn’t do the work up to standards, and then the homeowners camera coincidentally “slips” and catches bad details, and then the homeowner decides he shouldn’t pay. And, oh yeah, back in the day “I would have done this whole roof myself”. I never get tired of that story!

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The two of you are arguing about regional differences. Both ways are correct in your respect areas according the code.

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It is kind of weird having a Florida guy arguing with a New York guy about eave details

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I did not flake out. When the Owner came out, we talked and I said I wanted 6 nails per shingle and “he agreed” and I signed a contract (which he was not going to do), no I did not make him put 6 nails per shingle in the contract, because I didn’t want to be that guy. Then the installers did not install with 6 nails.

I never once said I shouldn’t pay. They came out yesterday and did the job, stayed late, and finished it. The owner was here about 8:30 this morning and I paid him after talking with him for a few minutes. I never once said I wouldn’t or shouldn’t pay.

I did not yell or anything but I expressed I was unhappy they did not do 6 nails as he said they would and he called me liar. He said his guys get paid well and they do good work. Whether they do good work is not the point. I clearly have proof they did not do the job the way it was agreed to be done.

I do feel right in addressing not getting a job that I am paying for completed the way we had agreed to have it done. If you are not willing to do the job the way the person paying you wants it done, don’t say you will.

I question how honest half you people are right now. How often do you agree to do a job but then do it differently than what you agree to? I mean if you go get an oil change and pay for a 10K mile filter but instead they give you a 5K mile filter because you are going to change it after 3K miles anyhow? Is it honest and right to charge for a service then do it differently because you feel “it’s good enough”?