Homeowner re-roof questions (cont.)-Starter shingles and Shingling


Hello All,

Thank you for your advise and help so far.

And to continue:

Using Certainteed Landmark Shingles and following Certainteed SAM (Shingle Applicator’s Manual).

With help from this site and others, I installed new 1/2" radiant barrier OSB, WinterGuard, DiamondDeck, drip edge and W-valley metals.

  1. SAM recommends a 1/2" overhang. My drip edge does not have a ledge for the shingle. Would you recommend 1/2, 3/4 or 1" overhang?

  2. SAM has five-course diagonal method with 6" and 11" and 5 5/8" and 11 1/4". For a DIY, which one is recommended for Landmark Shingles (not Landmark Pro)?

Are there advantages of one over the other? 6" and 11" would be a little easier to measure.

  1. In open valley, is it better to install bleeders first? If yes, should I use starter shingles as bleeders or regular Landmark shingles? I will dub or nib the shingle at the valley. I want to do it water cannot get under the shingle at the valley.

Thank you very much for your time and help.


6 and 11 is fine, I have never installed bleeders in a valley, nor have seen anyone do it. If I remember right you have a lower slope and gutters?. If so I would use 1" overhang.



My slope is 4/12 and will install gutters all around. Thank you, I will use a 1" overhang.

On your installs, how far out from valley centerline do you cut your shingles on open valleys?

SAM recommends 3" from the valley centerline. That looks wide to me but then I am viewing close to the valleys. Driving around town, I see from passing by those open valleys are closer than 3".

Thank you again.


My magic number is 3.5, only use that because on slate your boot fits without breaking slate. 3" is probably around standard on shingles.


Hope you all for a great and blessed Thanksgiving.

I really do appreciate all your replies.

It has been raining for a couple of days and is cloudy today but there will be sunshine on Sunday.

I left part of the lower roof not tarped and the synthetic is wet.
How long do you wait to dry until shingling again?

Question about pyramid five-course step pattern using 6 and 11":

I was expecting the steps to be somewhat even but the 3rd step is at least twice as wide as the other steps. Is this correct or did I miss something?

Questions about plumbing vents:

I reached my first plumbing vent and in a few more courses will reach a water heater vent (type B) and also dryer vents (DryerJack gooseneck).

How many nails do you typically use to hold the flange down? Two on top corners only?

Do you caulk the top and side of the flange but leave the bottom uncaulked for moisture to escape?

What is the gap to leave when trimming the shingles to fit around the flange opening/boot? 1/2, 3/4 or 1" gap?

Thank you very much for your help.


The 3rd step being twice as wide is how the Certainteed Landmark stagger works.

It’s not a pyramid you are supposed to start from the left side of the roof and work to the right.

Both of these above are about preventing patterning in the field of the roof.

Pipe boots, I nail them along the side also for wind uplift, no exposed nails this way.

It is a good idea to caulk under the shingles over the flange, it doesn’t need to be a lot.

A small 1/2" gap around the curved part of the boot will be fine.



Thank you for your reply.

Ok, I will continue with the five-course stagger pattern. I have a hip roof so I am starting in the middle and work to both towards both sides following Certainteed SAM Special shaped roof chapter.

How long do you wait after heavy rain to start shingling again.


You can shingle as soon as the rain stops. If it is really dripping wet you can blow the excess water off with a leaf blower.


Hello All,

It has been raining on and off for the last few days.

I have shingled about six courses and having some questions at the valleys.

I am shingling in the middle and working towards both sides of the valley.

The part I am shingling now has two valleys. The valley on the left has no W-metal yet since I am not tacking the other side of the valley. I shingle up to about 2 ft from the valley.

For the valley on the right side, I have ended up with some small cut shingles that will not have any room for me to nail. I am not nailing within 12 inches of the valley as was suggested here on this forum. So, I am using Locite PL roofing sealant to hold the pieces of shingle. Is this ok or should I do something different?

Is it better for me to shingle from the right valley towards the left valley? This way I will have full shingles with room to nail. But I will not know how wide is the shingle that ends on the left valley until I get there.

For the left valley, I forgot that there was no W-metal yet and I nailed the starter shingle at 10 inches from the valley. When I get to this part, should I remove the nail and put down the W-metal and then re-nail in a new spot and put roof sealant on the old spot?

Or, put the W-metal over the starter shingle and continue with shingling? I won’t get to this part for a while but I need to know how to fix my mistakes.

Thank you for your help and time.


Put whole or over 1/2 shingles along valleys and the small pieces in the field. PL is not going to hold up for 30 years adhered to the back sanded side of an asphault shingle.


Like MPA said is the way to do it. You put the small pieces in the field. You put a piece in that is about the size of a double step, then a full shingle cut to size.

Are you installing a row all the way across at a time instead of working your way up?


Thank you for replying.

I try to get 6 stagered pattern started in the middle on my vertical reference line and then to left and right.

What should I do for the six courses I have started?


  1. Leave them alone and keep inspect every year.
  2. Put one or two nails but not closer than 6 in of valley following SAM manual.
  3. Remove shingles and put small pieces in field and longer ones near valley.

Glad I ask the pros and thank you.


Remove some shingles, small in the field and full or close to it near valley. Don’t compromise the bottom of you valley for the sake of having to pull 6 shingles out.


Thank you.
Before I read your reply, there was a break in the rain. So I went up and remove the shingles and will redo it better.

Thank you again to everyone.


I did what I could on the first roofing plane and now moving to the second roof plane which has a valley and a hip.

This time I want to start shingling at the valley on the left to the hip on the right.

Certainteed Landmark stepping patterns has the step widths as: 5 in, 6 in, 16 1/2 in, 6 in , 5 in.

Question: Do I keep the same stepping widths recommended by Certainteed as I start from the valley?

Or, do I use the like 5 in and just use that all the way up to the ridge since the valley already has a slope?

Hope I am explaining it right.

Thank you.


It really depends on the pitch of the valley what will work. I forget are you doing closet cut or open metal valleys? You want to keep a minimum of 6" offsets.


Thank you @MPA

Pitch is 4/12 and I am doing open valley.

I chalked my lines for the first six course.

Jist confirming; So I can use 6 in offset starting at valley all the way up to ridge.

Thank you.


6" offset on open valley is fine as long as you have enough shingle in the valley.

The most important thing is to put an angled dub cut from the top of the shingle downward into the valley to prevent water from traveling horizontally across the top of the shingles.


Are there concerns about using short pieces of shingle for the hip like there are for valleys?

What is the shortest piece of shingle I can use for the hip? This way I can put the short piece in the field.

Thank you.


There are no issues with using short pieces on hips.