Existing two layered roof repair

#1

Greetings Ya’ll,

This is my first post in the forum.

I’m not a Roofing Professional, but, I was raised in a Construction Family, & from the time that I was knee high to a grass hopper, I assisted my Dad, Grandfather, & Uncles in building hundreds of homes. All of the work that was performed was “New Construction”.

I worked in Construction till I joined the Army, & once I was discharged, I thought that I’d go back to work with my family building homes, but, due to several divorces, the Oil Embargo of 1974, & a Concrete Strike in the South Western Ohio area, … There was no work for me to find, so I went to the VA, & they set me up to go to school to learn HVAC, of which I’ve stayed with ever since then.

I have a Customer, who I’ve been doing HVAC/ Electrical, & Plumbing work for, going back at least 21 years.

This Customer had a so called “Reputable Roofer” install Certainteed Dimensional Shingles on her Modular Home’s roof, that in all truth, should have had the original shingles tore off. This “Roofer” also installed four sky lights.

It was “All Good” for about two years, & then our area, began to receive abundant rainfall, as well as numerous Severe Storms.

My Customer began to get several leaks around these Skylights, as well as several wet spots on her ceilings.

My Customer, then tried to get “Said” roofer to come & fix the Roof, which was allegedly under a Warranty per the Contract that was signed.

“Said” Roofer was to busy, for more than 6 months, & as time went on, the indoor damage escalated.

Then, the bad news came, that this “Roofer” had a major Drug Problem, had gotten in to an auto accident, & became paralyzed.

My Customer, by that time was freaking out about the indoor damage, & she told me that she wanted me to fix the Skylights, & the leaks. At first I refused cuz’, I didn’t want our relationship to move to where I was her “Jack of all Trades”,… But, My Customer is a very determined woman, & she repeatedly insisted that she wasn’t calling another Roofer, & that she knew that I would do her a better job.

I contacted the manufacturer of the Skylights “Velux”, & studied up on their Installation Manuals, as well as talked to their Tech Service about how to re-install these windows. The Roofer either didn’t use the Flashing kits specified by “Velux”, &/or he only used pieces, instead of the whole kit.

As I was removing the “New Shingles”, … chunks of the original, brittle shingles began to fall out from under the the “New Shingles”! I then removed all of the shingles, & saw that I’d even have to replace sections of the "Roof DecK’. Then it “Blew me away” to see, as I removed rotten decking, that “said” Roofer had even cut my Customer’s 2 x 2 cantilevered roof support system, so I had to tie all that back together.

After repairing & replacing all of this, I put down, what I learned to be a “cheap version” of “Ice & water Shield”, cuz’ at 45 degrees I had to nail it down, even after i had rolled it out to get acclimated.

Now here is where I need some Professional Advice, even “Helpful Correction”, … I to the best as I was able, reached under the “New Shingles” approximately 3" to 4" & removed the original shingles, as well as the nails, & factory staples. I then slid New Shingles under what the so called “Roofer” had installed, & nailed those shingles to the decking. I then installed the second course of “New Shingles”, as well as the Skylight’s Flashing.

In our area of S.W. Ohio, over the past 6 months, we’ve had at least 12" above our “Normal Rainfall”, & my point is that the repairs that I made on the Skylights have not leaked even a teaspoon of water, but,…

Was I wrong to build up the shingles, so that they’d be level with what was not removed? Or should I have put down one layer of shingles, which if I’m thinking right, would’ve caused approximately 1/4" difference in height, between the repaired area, & the existing. I’ll need to know this, for I have to now go to the other areas that are leaking & repair them.

Also, … My Customer now knows that with all considered, … She needs a New Roof, starting from the Decking up. At this time, she says that she can not afford a “New Roof”, but she is setting $$$ aside for this.

While I’m at it, does anyone know of a roof mounted attic 120V.fan, that could be serviced if necessary, from the roof? I need to decrease the heat load on my Customer’s home, for her A.C., & to take the attic heat form building up, & causing further damage to her shingles.

Sorry about this long winded introductory post.

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#2

Go after his liability insurance to cover reroof. In our area it is not legal to do recovers on manufactured homes as they are usually sheathed with 3/8” plywood. It doesn’t matter what his status is as long as he had proper insurance when he did the job.

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#3

Given the nature of the problems with the other “Roofer”, I’d be surprised if he was carrying any insurance. But you’re correct if he did have it. Unfortunately, I think what you’ll find is the insurance companies that cover roofers don’t like paying claims any more than the ones that cover Homeowners.

As far as the OP’s question, it sounds like you did all you could given what you had to work with. Difficult to make chicken salad out of chicken shit although you may have come close. At this point, the best you can hope for is for it not to leak until she can afford a properly installed new roof.

As far as a power vent, you should be able to find one at a local roofing supply or even Lowes or Home Depot. Problem you have is there may not be any intake ventilation on the home so the power vent won’t be much help.

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#4

Greetings Tileman & Authentic_Dad,

Thank you for replying.

The “Roofer” apparently never had any form of Insurance, & as far as any lawsuits, he now has no assets.

This roof, has 1/2" OSB board Tileman, & I’m replacing it with 1/2" plywood.

Regarding the Attic Fan, … I contacted Broan, & talked to their Tech Service, to see if they had a unit that could be “Serviced” from the roof, rather than the Attic, due to lack of Access, & they have one unit, that meet that requirement, but, he also told me that it would be “Stressful”.

I know that I could install a small Commercial Exhaust Fan, that is designed to be serviced from the roof, but, … It would stand out like a Sore Thumb. I’m also looking in to a Solar Powered Attic Fan that is also designed to be “Serviced” from above, but, … In both cases the cost of these units is very high, as well as their appearance.
I never thought that these Modular Manufacturers, would not have designed a Roof Mounted, or Gable mounted Exhaust Fan, specifically for their market, … But it is what it is.

As far as the “Vents”?

It blew me away to find out that the existing “Soffit Vents”, were more for “appearance”, than actual functionality! The eaves on these modulars fold up, during their transport, to the H.O’s property, whereupon they are then lowered. The available Air Space, in these overhanging eaves, from the Soffit vent to the so called “Attic Space”, for approx. 20 inches is less than 2". There’s very little that can be done about the “Soffit Venting”, other than introducing a “Forced Exhaust” unit, … But, I am going to install Gable vents, that will be sized for the required air intake, to match the air volume exhausted by a powered Attic Fan.

As far as my layering the new replacement shingles?

In your Professional Opinions, … Is that the right path?

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#5

What’s wrong with this? Link to power vent

Why would you spend big dollars on a solar powered unit when the lady is trying to save for a new roof? If there are soffit vents and an air way, you’re probably okay with that power vent. You may be looking for a problem to solve that doesn’t really exist. You sound like you’re looking for a perfect solution on a very imperfect roof.

If your repair isn’t leaking, it is likely a good repair.

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#6

Authentic,

I think You misunderstood what I stated about the “Solar Powered Vent”. I’m not pushing for My Customer to have it installed, nor even a Small Commercial Exhaust Fan. But, … those two types of Fans are manufactured to be “Serviced” from above, rather than from the Attic, which for all purposes, isn’t accessible.

“If”, I can find a residential attic exhaust fan, that could be “Serviced” from above, even though that it might be “stressful”, then that is what I’ll recommend to My Customer, at least for the sake of cost, etc.

“If”, she wanted to go with a small Commercial Exhaust Fan, or even with a “Solar Powered Exhaust Fan”,… that Fan, which ever one it is, can easily be taken down for the New Roof, & re-installed.

As far as the existing “Soffit Vents”? They are virtually useless, for the Modular Manufacturer left very little area for any air transfer, if any.

With that said, … I’m going to figure out some way to provide fresh air through two Gable vents that I’ll install, to make up for what is lacking via these defective soffit vents.

"If your repair isn’t leaking, it is likely a good repair."

I Already knew that, … What I was seeking, was for a Professional Roofer, to tell me whether hat was the “Correct Way” to make the Repair, or if there is a better method.

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#7

The correct way is to do a multi layor repair is to install a new roof, as a roofer I cannot stand behind work done on multiple layors so we don’t do it. If we do it comes with no warranty or guarantees.

As far as residential exhaust fans go there really is no servicing. When they burn out you tear them out and install a new one. This is espically true with the plastic dome ones, by the time the motor burns out the rest of the unit is ready to be replaced anyway.

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#8

What MPA said. It would cost more to take off the cover and replace the motor than just replace the entire unit.

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#9

MPA,

I have no dispute abut the “Proper Way”, … For instance, … “If” Your Heat Exchanger went out on your Oil, or Gas Furnace, & that Heat Exchanger, was No Longer available, … The only “Proper Way”, that Yo will get heat, is by putting in a new furnace. On the other hand, … If Your Flue Pipe had holes in it, & the heat exchanger had filled with soot,… All of that can be fixed, & cleaned out, but, … By the time it’s done, the Labor bill will make you wish that You had installed a New Furnace.

My Customer, has her finances tied up, for at least 6 to 10 months, she will, after that time, have the shingles tore off, new decking, if needed, installed, & even new gutters. I’m buying her time, & preventing further damage in her home. Considering what she is paying me, … If a leak occurs, I will gladly go back, & repair that leak, & not charge My Customer.

As far as those Fans, MPA? I have replaced motors, & T-stats, in several Residential units, where I had access to the Attic, but these units were not plastic dome, they were metal.

Again Gentlemen, … My Customer’s Attic is not “Accessible”, at least not for my 210 pound 6 ft. body, & “If” the problem with the fan, the Capacitor, Motor,or T-stat, I can assure that it would be far cheaper for a “repair”, than to buy a new unit, tear out the old, & replace the shingles.

From what I’ve gathered from a Shingle Manufacturer “Tech”, after explaining the situation to him, … He told me that “Off the Books”, using the method of placing the Grace Ice Guard down on new decking, followed by a layer of new shingles installed on the deck, & under the existing 2nd layer of shingles, with another layer of new shingles installed on top of them, so as to not have an area where water could pond, should work, till my Customer can get her finances together.

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#10

A new power vent is $125. It doesn’t get much cheaper than that. You asked for advice, you received it. You can keep asking it all you want but I don’t think the responses are going to change. If it will make you happy, PM the answer you want, ask the question(s) you want and I’ll copy and paste your supplied answer.

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#11

My Apologies to all of You, for I had no intention of Offending You.

My initial question, as you can refer to, was about whether to build up the replacement shingles, or to just install one layer.

As far as any efforts to recover $$$ from “said” Roofer, I already stated that couldn’t happen.

The 'Attic fan" was an additional question, that somehow has gone “sideways”, from what I stated. I’m not recommending that My Customer spend big $$ on any attic fan, & speaking of the Solar Powered Fan, was only about an option, where a unit could be serviced from above, not a recommendation.

I’m puzzled why you speak of my “keep asking it all you want”, for I didn’t.

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#12

Because I suggested 2 or 3 times to simply use a standard roof top power vent. And you kept arguing about it. I could care less how you do it. I know if I were doing it, it would be with a $125 power vent and if, in 8 to 10 years the motor in that vent failed, I’d uninstall it and install a new one another $125.

As far as recommending proper procedure, MPA gave you proper procedure. Tear the existing roof layers off and do the entire roof correctly. There is no proper procedure for fixing a clusterphuk. It’s like I told you several times. Do the best you can and if it doesn’t leak, it must have been the right way. If you think you’re going to get a better answer from some shingle Rep, then ask them the questions.

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#13

Look,

The Topic went sideways about the Exhaust fan, & more attention was paid to it, than simply telling me to double the layers of shingles or put down Two.

And that was/ is My Primary concern, with this topic.

While I was trying to get an answer over that, the conversation stayed on the Fan.

I called a Roofing Rep, explained the situation to him, & with a 8 minute conversation, he didn’t give me all of the hurdles nor Crap, that I got here.

Now You are still whining over this, after I Apologized?

Take Your Forum, & opinions & shove them where the Sun doesn’t shine, … And I’ll find my way outa your pathetic 4th grade playground group.

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#14

Congratulations you found a rep to tell you what you wanted to hear and ignored decades of actual on the job real world experience. My advice based on what you’ve said: Pull a tarp and hold your breath for 6 months.

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#15

The last section of chapter 9 of the IRC prevents repairing over 2 or more layers of any kind of roofing for a reason. I would not touch that situation with a 10 foot pole. I refuse to adopt the problems of customers in these situations. I have found that these are often the results of customers that don’t want to pay the prices demanded by licensed, bonded, and insured qualified roofing contractors. So they do it them selves or hire “crack heads” to roof their homes for them. Forgive my frustrations but this is the result of many a “debate” with dirt cheap illogical customers and cleaning up the disasters resulting from these situations.

As for you, lets say you attempt the repair. Now if it fails because the previous guys work was this bad. Now who does the customer want to blame now. Probably the last individual who touched it. Can of worms my friend, can of worms…

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