4 tab over 3 tab

#1

A rental house in Arkansas has a requirement for architectural shingles. The roofer, apparently didn’t know and installed a 3 tab roof as negotiated via phone. The real estate rental manager didn’t seem to know either, until the new roof was completed. 24 hours after the roof was finished, we’re informed it has to be replaced because of a covenants violation. I’ve read the discussion and debate here of layering and totally understand the premise of stripping the roof to ensure proper protection for the house. In this case, it’s literally a brand-new roof. The roofers just left the job-site Tuesday. What is the consensus regarding 4 tab shingles being installed over new 3 tab shingles. It’s in Arkansas, averaging only 3 inches snow per year.

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#2

I think you mean architectural shingles, not 4 tabs. If the new roof was installed directly over the substrate (plywood I would guess) you can put another roof over it, assuming your roof will handle the weight of the new shingles. Three tab shingles lay very flat so there should be little telegraphing on the architectural shingles. You might consider putting a photo here so we all know what you have now.

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#3

I don’t have a picture, as I’m in a different state than the rental house. You are correct, thank you for bringing that up … I should have stated the question as architectural shingles over 3 tab …

The original roof had wind damage, and was stripped down to bare plywood as a condition of sale. (We’re trying to sell the house). Damaged plywood
and all vents were replaced, and a new 25 year 3 tab shingle roof was installed with tar paper between.

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#4

Under the circumstances, it would probably be okay. However, keep in mind, it is about a 20% savings and it would likely shorten the life of the roof. Since it is a rental, that may not be an issue. If you know you have a really good roof crew that will make sure the nails penetrate correctly, you should be okay. Were it my house or my rental, I wouldn’t put good money after bad. I’d bite the bullet and do the roof correctly. You also better check with the HOA or property owners group to make certain a shingle over install is allowed. You don’t want to end up doing it three times.

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#5

If we were the roofer we would apologize and tear the roof off, replace if it was our screwup, no charge. Been there, done that unfortunately.
If I were the owner I would expect the same thing to happen. Overlays suck and someone inherits the higher reroof cost down the road.

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#6

Thank you all for your input … after reading, talked with roofer and came to agreement to completely strip roof, install lifetime warranty architectural shingles, new synthetic underlayment, ice dams where needed, new flashing, new everything …

Roofer offering job at cost @ $4300 … he’s trying to get materials price lower and will adjust quote after talking to his supplier … we will accept the new adjusted quote and hopefully have the house sold after that …

Thanks again for your replies .

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#7

Wow you have a big heart! The roofer put on the wrong roof and you are paying extra to make it right? Did you have partial responsibility in the mistake? One of my foremen made a mistake while I was out of town and put the wrong color roof on a new construction. We tore the roof off and replaced it with the correct color on our dime. Our mistake we eat it, end of story. We will probably do years of work for this contractor due to us standing behind our work.

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#8

It sounds to me like the roofer installed what was originally asked for. Also sounds like no one involved knew 3 tabs were a violation until home owner association got involved after the fact. If that’s the case I don’t hold him responsible at all and think its quite fair he is redoing the job at cost.

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#9

There is potential blame to go around based on perspective, but as the homeowner it stops here. The roofer should have seen that every home in the neighborhood had architectural shingles, with those same type being removed and could have taken a 5 minute pause to ask a question, is this right … the real estate manager who managed the property for over ten years, conducted a title search, and was the selling agent, should have communicated what the requirement are, at the time she stated the roof needed to be replaced … as homeowners, we should have known more about the neighborhood. There was existing covenants registered for the home at the time of purchase, but it was not disclosed at the time of purchase. We had no idea it existed. Ignorance is no excuse … we bear the most responsibility because we made the decision based on cost and signed the contract to install 3 tab shingles.

The roofer in question seems very sincere and has dropped the price to $2800, for the second new roof replacement.

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#10

The roofer really is not to blame if the homeowner did not tell him 3 tabs were not allowed by hoa. A municipality will give a roofer a permit for something and the hoa later says it is not allowed. It is not a contractors responsibility to get your roof approved by hoa unless specifically asked to. With my experience with hoa the homeowner needs to get any type of work approved by them before giving the contractor the ok to start.

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#11

There is no HOA, only a recorded covenant and restrictions for the subdivision, created by the original developer.

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#12

How is this enforced?

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#13

Arkansas has a strange law that allows for a Bill of Assurance, enforceable through the courts even without a hoa … I don’t know who enforces it in each subdivision without a hoa. I didn’t want to take the chance of legal fees, in addition to the roof expense. Especially since we’re in Utah, it would not be cost effective to fight a legal battle long distance.

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#14

4 tab? It’s no wonder the roofer installed the wrong shingles. You don’t know what you’re asking for. 3 tab is cheaper and that’s prob why you picked it. It’s not the roofers responsibility to look around and ask questions. Lots of neighborhoods have 30-year shingles on every roof and no law saying they have to be 30 year. I’ve been roofing for 15 years and never heard that.nor would I have poked around asking if they had to be 30 years. Of course I don’t even install
Three tabs because I think they’re crap but that’s beside the point.
Lay over 3 tab. No big deal. But the new shingles won’t last as long as they should.

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