Wrong Amount Of Shingles In Bundles


#1

Here is a problem I ran into this past week and I want to know if anyone else has had this yet or what. I always order extra for waste as I am sure we all do. I had my two best roofers who will not waste anything more than a foot call me at 4 pm saying we are short shingles. After arguing with them about it, I asked them how many SQ. they put on. The total came out to 23 which did not make sense because I measured it at 21 and I am very rarely off with my measurements (anymore). I got a hold of my salesman at the ABC we go to, and started bitching to him about this and the million other problems we have been having with them latley. This is where it gets interesting…

He told me that he has been hearing a lot latley that they havent been putting the full amount of shingles in each package. That two shingles to four shingles are missing from each package and that one guy was 6 square short on a 52 square job even though 4 different guys measured it and he gave them the right numbers in order to have the right materials.

My question is, have any of you guys heard of this happening yet or has it happened to you? I want to know why I have to pay full price for something if I am not getting the full amount. Seems odd to me but entirely believable.


#2

What brand of shingles, what rating (30,40 or 50 years)and 3 tab or dimensional?
You have peaked my interest.


#3

Mine were 30 year Gaf/Elk Timberline. I have heard the same thing with other brands though.


#4

I could see being shorted a shingle in one bundle once every blue moon, because of some foul up at the plant. However, no manufacturer is going to knowing do what you are saying, since they would open themselves up to a giant class-action suit. Apparently, the ABC guy just wanted to get you out the door.


#5

i have not heard anything about this or experienced it.


#6

Actually this ABC guy has had us personally do two of his roofs and refers us to anyone who asks for a roof or anything done over all other contractors he works with. We buy the most from him a month and he is in my golf league so I do trust his word very well. We have built a very good relationship with our ABC, we dont pay ANY fees to have them deliever our shingles, no gas charge or roof top drop charge or anything so i highly doubt they would “want to get me out of the door” with that sort of relationship built. We spend anywhere between 40 to as much as 70 thousand a month with this guy so I doubt he does not value our business. I got a hold of some of the other contractors he told me it happened to and they said the same thing.

Perhaps it was just a mix up on a whole batch that got delivered to our ABC. I dont know what happened but it seems weird that it happened with 3 other guys, two of whom dont go through my same salesman.

I never heard of this happening either so I do not know if it was just a fluke or not but thats why I was wondering if anyone from other parts of the country has experienced this.


#7

I have notice a few light bundles from time to time, but can’t see where it would be short over a bundle per job. I try to figure mine 1 square over and usually have 1 or 2 bundles left .What you can do is remeasure or refigure the roof and see if you made a mistake somewhere before making a final judgement, at least give them that much in all fairness.


#8

Yeah I know bushhog and thanks but I did remeasure it and it measured out correctly. I always figure in waste at anywhere between 8 and 11 percent depending on how cut up it is but that was just a straight 5 pitch rake edge to rake edge 21 by 49 by 2 and I ordered 22 sq just to always be safe and it didnt turn out right. Oh well. Usually if I am short, I take all the blame and admit it but there is no way I measured this wrong. Anyways, thats why I asked the question I did since it does not seem to make sense.


#9

I would say you got quite a few bundles that were light, but I have only seen a few on each house and hadn’t noticed it being short other than a bundle or so. The ones stocking the house will notice the difference in the weight of the bundles, some feel like airweight compared to the full ones.


#10

I did run short two bundles on a roof a few weeks ago and couldn’t believe I ran short. So far this year have had a couple extra bundles on every job.

I know on the Landmark Plus and Premium roofs come across some bundles that weigh more or less than normal.
Never counted the shingles per bundle though.

With the huge cost of shingles right now we better be getting what we are paying for.


#11

Landmark 30’s have 22 shingles per bundle, 40’s & 50’s have 3 bundles with 16 shingles and 1 with 18, per square.
Timberlines should be the same.


#12

All I can suggest is something that will add a LOT of extra time spent per job.

If you have shingles delivered to the ground, take a video camera & have someone film you 100% uninterrupted from start to finish:

BEFORE YOU START USING THEM, open & count by hand all the individual shingles per bundle. That means you will have to have closeups on EVERY bundle you open.

I can easily see this adding a LOT of time to your project, but if you’re 100% sure that this is the case (being shorted by the factory / manufacturer) then you will need indisputable evidence. Having a roof load will NOT make this easy; it has to be on the ground & EVERY bundle you do this with has to be completely intact; no splits, no tears, no ‘taped back up’, not delivered to you after having been returned by someone from a prior job, etc…

  1. Camera man.
  2. You (or someone else) opening the bundles on one end & you (or someone else) then counting the individual shingles.
  3. Two other people then pick up & set aside the newly opened bundles to a totally separated spot, maybe 15’ away on a different pallet.
  4. I might even suggest another person with a can of orange upside down paint who will then spray a number on the bundle representing what # it is in your series.
  5. I would even sugest that each bundle get zoomed in on ‘just enough’ & have them flipped over & show both ends before you actually open them up; you want to prove that they were 100% intact before you actually peeled into the wrapper(s).
    • All of this will have to happen on ONE long shot with zero breaks in the filming. * *

Again, IMO that’s the ONLY way to see wihtout any kind of a reasonable doubt whether or not you’re being shorted.

The only thing I can suggest otherwise is to have your ABC rep come to the jobsite with you & y’all can both count the shingles, but of course you’ll have to go through the entire order to be able to see.

In any of these “open them all & count” scenarios, you don’t have to totally rip all the wrappers off, just enough to get a count on the end but you need to be exacting in what you show to the camera.

I would REALLY REALLY like to know what you come up with no matter how you do this.


#13

If you stack your shingles on the ridge just get the help to put all the airweights in a different location so you can count your loss .Theres no doubt in which ones I’m talking about, I stock all my roofs and know some are light. Your help will know too, just have them put them in one area. This has been going on for over a year that I know of but 2 squares short on a 20 square job is robbery.


#14

[quote=“RanchHandRoofing”]All I can suggest is something that will add a LOT of extra time spent per job.

If you have shingles delivered to the ground, take a video camera & have someone film you 100% uninterrupted from start to finish:

BEFORE YOU START USING THEM, open & count by hand all the individual shingles per bundle. That means you will have to have closeups on EVERY bundle you open.

I can easily see this adding a LOT of time to your project, but if you’re 100% sure that this is the case (being shorted by the factory / manufacturer) then you will need indisputable evidence. Having a roof load will NOT make this easy; it has to be on the ground & EVERY bundle you do this with has to be completely intact; no splits, no tears, no ‘taped back up’, not delivered to you after having been returned by someone from a prior job, etc…

  1. Camera man.
  2. You (or someone else) opening the bundles on one end & you (or someone else) then counting the individual shingles.
  3. Two other people then pick up & set aside the newly opened bundles to a totally separated spot, maybe 15’ away on a different pallet.
  4. I might even suggest another person with a can of orange upside down paint who will then spray a number on the bundle representing what # it is in your series.
  5. I would even sugest that each bundle get zoomed in on ‘just enough’ & have them flipped over & show both ends before you actually open them up; you want to prove that they were 100% intact before you actually peeled into the wrapper(s).
    • All of this will have to happen on ONE long shot with zero breaks in the filming. * *

Again, IMO that’s the ONLY way to see wihtout any kind of a reasonable doubt whether or not you’re being shorted.

The only thing I can suggest otherwise is to have your ABC rep come to the jobsite with you & y’all can both count the shingles, but of course you’ll have to go through the entire order to be able to see.

In any of these “open them all & count” scenarios, you don’t have to totally rip all the wrappers off, just enough to get a count on the end but you need to be exacting in what you show to the camera.

I would REALLY REALLY like to know what you come up with no matter how you do this.[/quote]

Well, you could weigh them…
A Landmark 30 shingle weighs about 3.8 lbs.
40’s weight about 4.1 lbs, 50’s about 4.4 lbs.
Should be about the same for Timberlines.

I really doubt you are being shorted, damaged shingles being thrown away, this is more likely…
If you are paying labor by the sq, I would be suspicious…


#15

Yeah that would be tedious but it is a good idea RanchHand. I am just going to see what happens on the next one. Axiom, I do pay by the square but with the two guys I had shingling it, I know for a fact they arent wasting anything over a foot. These are guys I have worked next to and trained at the place we used to work before they left a few years ago to come work with me when I started up. I have had guys who liked to waste and if it was them, I would be suspicious. Any bundles I have left over; get returned and at the end of the month, I give both of these guys a percentage of the value of what was returned. It gives them a little incentive and helps to keep job costs down in the long run.

I have two roofs being done this week. I am going to wait to see if the same thing happens or if it was just a fluke or who knows. I am going to look into it a little more. I can see a bundle every once in awhile being short a shingle or two but this was quite odd.