What the Best Valley Install ? & What's Warrantied


#1

The Money Pit , would like to get 40 Yrs. Out of the Roof .

Doing the Roof Valley’s - How is the Best ?

Doing the Valleys , so the have a Long Life ?

Doing the Valley’s on a 12/12 Hipped Victorian ?

What’s Going to Allow the Next Roofer to Fix
If Needed ? :idea:


#2

Open valley with 20oz, zinc coated copper with "w"crimp, hem and cleat.


#3

Wow That Sounds Like a Real Deal .
Is One Able to Get this W Crimp from the Metal Roofing Industry in 10’ or 12 ’ ft. Lengths and Maybe
18" or 24" Widths ?

I haven’t Even Seen the Clamp Down or Hold Down’s
Your Talking about . Any Photo’s on the Net ?

Thank You - very much for - Your Expertise.

Dan


#4

So It Sounds Like Open Valley’s - If they are Done - Properly .

Couldn’t one just use Coil Stock of SS or Copper with Ice & Frost Shield & do the Same Thing ?

I’m looking @ Function .

I’m getting a lot of - We lay the Shingles in the Valley Side ways , It’s California Style .


#5

Dont do california short cut!!! it depends on your climate. Valley methods differ from region to region. My manufacture recommends closed cut valley. Im in NY.


#6

What are the Reasons against the Californian
Short Cut ?

Is there more then One Kind of California ?


#7

Hi,

“Short cut” that tells alot.


#8

The Money Pit aka Dan,
You should just go with a slate roof with copper valleys and be done with it. Do all the other flashings in copper too. If my memory serves me right a galvanized slate is the best slate? Read a book a while back on roofing and thought they said it weighs over 1,000 lbs per square, costs over $1,000 a square to buy and over $1,000 a square to install. Of course never done any slate roofing and since I’ve never gotten a call for it so never plan on doing any.

You can get copper vents too, just $100 a pop.

There are many ways to install a valley detail and make it leak proof. You can do open painted, open non painted, and open copper. There are different widths and profiles of the W in open valleys too. With closed valleys can you do a weave or a one cut in the middle or no cuts with an angled shingle running up the valley center. You can even do open valley flashing with a shingle running up the center on both sides and have no cuts.

If done correctly all the above will keep the decking dry.

Haven’t had a chance to read through the valley details in the new MSA9 book but I think they allow all valley methods when installed 30yr laminate shingles. The only one I’m not 100% sure of is the weave which IMO is the worst way to run a laminate valley or any valley for that method.

I know some don’t agree with a one cut closed valley but IMO it looks the best when cut right down the center of the valley. Some say to offset the cut an inch or two but so far no leaks with a center cut on several hundred roofs with thousand and thousand of LF of closed cut in the center valleys. The only time I offset the cut is if it’s on a low to steep pitch transition.

Put a bid together last Summer on a 50sq off roof that had $9K in copper cost. That didn’t include the copper for three round dormers either. My guess was $10K+ for those.


#9

Hi,

The cut right in the center of the valley. This is a gamble. The problem if it shows up will be around 10 years. Most will not have a problem.

So you are just gambling. I have never seen a problem with the valleys cut 2" out.


#10

On a 12/12, an open valley is a better choice. The above spec will last the life of two asphalt roofs. Leave the valley and just replace the shingles.

24" wide copper(not zinc coated)hemmed and cleated
%between%http://www.roofingcontractorreview.com/gallery/d/612-5/copper+valley.JPG


#11

if you are planning to use shingles a laced valley looks great if the installer is skilled and a closed cut is good if you are working with two pitches. A valley usually will not be the determining factor of your roofs life unless maybe a bad install. The life is usually determined how well the attic is ventilated and a good moisture barrier needs to be in place.My opinion if you want 40 years out of your shingle roof , then go with a lifetime shingle,good ventilation and a skilled roofer and you should be straight.


#12

ps . im in north carolina and we dont get a lot of ice or snow so laced valleys are very common. Not sure but maybe not so great up north.Like marshall stated valleys differ upon regions


#13

Well , some Answers Just Muddy the Waters , but Thanks to Dennis for the Great Picture of that Copper Valley .

These Older Victorians - have Great Character an are Built Like - Like a Brick - Out House .

Even thou this one is 104 Yrs. Old It’s- Well Cut Timber are Supported by Steel 5" Pipe and 7 x 7 Plates.

It’s Windows are Original and are Rebuildable of Course the 38 Storm Windows Help.

We Updated Just about everything Wiring, Plumbing ,
Insulation , Rebuilt the Three Flue 52" Chimney , etc.

The Roof was Never Really Done - Up to Snuff .
There’s a Huge 17’ High - Walk Up Attic - which is Completely Original with a Plastered In Cantered Ceiling One Room Only -On The Sun and Breeze Side.
The Rest is Wide Open .

Any Way the Home is - Historically Know & Recognized
for It’s Architecture .

It is Worthy of a Slate Roof -It had a Full Cedar
Roof at One Time. LOL - when I Hit the Lottery , but I Sure could have @ Least a High Quality Roof Job. I Believe That Starts in the Valley’s and Flashing .

Everyone just Looks , but most don’t See.
They Talk Generic-run of the Mill K-Mart Flashing.

Dan


#14

10+ years and counting on several center cut closed valleys and so far no call backs. Then again we’re talking Minnesota here so more than likely they’ve been replaced at least once since then due to either hail or wind damage!!!

A few job soups for new construction back in the day said to cut them dead center. One of the soups had a tremendous background in roofing.

The ticket is to cut the ears back or run the shingles just shy of the top entering into the center of the valley.

If you don’t cut your ears back you could have problems.

The only problem with closed valleys are when using organic shingles. Water will tend to curl the shingles up. Of course organic shingles are a thing of the past.


#15

I’m starting to Think that the 12/12’s which would have a very Fast and Violent - water shed would wear on the Closed Valley Roofing Material .

( Father Time ) - Here’s an Issue the Flashing on a Cedar Shake Home at the Peaks and Down along these Peak’s Edges to the Corner where the Starter Row is the
Cedar which has a Build Up of 3/4" Plus a 5/4 to get to where a Stud is for Real Holding Power on these flashing’s Might be 3.5" with the over hang that seems like a lot Roofing and Flashing - Not Nailed
Down , Flapping in the Breeze !

So, Holding Down these Edges , what’s the Best Method - Cap Nails might lend some Additional Hold Down , but what Really get the Edges Down to Prevent Wind Damage - from Ripping at Edges ?

Thanks
Dan


#16

Hi,

I am not saying it will not work most of the time.

Cutting 2" out of the center works everytime.

Manufacture and NRCA testing and my personal experience prove that cutting the valleys in the center is not foolproof.


#17

Further I have Never had to Use a Warranty as I made Sure It was Installed and Built Correctly.

Over Engineered , sort a Speak .

20 yrs. Quality Assurance and 7 yrs. Eng Tech
Support III - so I Kinda Over do Items .

I Guess You Could say I Only want to do It Once.


#18

[quote=“EngTech1”]Further I have Never had to Use a Warranty as I made Sure It was Installed and Built Correctly.

Over Engineered , sort a Speak .

20 yrs. Quality Assurance and 7 yrs. Eng Tech
Support III - so I Kinda Over do Items .

I Guess You Could say I Only want to do It Once.[/quote]

What are you talking about?

Do you engineer and built valley flashing???


#19

Just what are Ears ? I didn’t Know Shingles had Ears . LOL - Lighten Up .

I’m a DIY - Guy

My Q.A Quality is in Machining & Sheet Metal Area. ( Retired.)

These Roofer today start Crying about - Your Landscaping and Not being able to Get a Lift to all Four Sides. God when I was Younger I Roofed - Boat Houses ( Ahh There in the Water )

Can’t get a Dumpster in There or a Lift on all 4 sides either , LOL

I’ve Lead Soldered , before After Watching an listening to how a Mason Does It .

I Thinking about going back to one of the Shops and Get them to Order some Coil stock , as They are Main Line Buyer’s @ 1000’s of feet , If not Ten of Thousands of feet.


#20

Dan,

You should do yourself a favor and contact Certainteed and request a copy of the MSA 9th edition. You will learn more than you ever wanted to know about roofing with asphalt shingles.

As a matter of fact a home owner recently posted on here with very informative questions as he’d just read the MSA 8th edition book and wanted to know what type of shingles to install on his house.

The MSA is hands down the single most informative book on installing asphalt roofing produced my a shingle manufacturer.

After you read the book you will get a better handle on things.

BTW, there are DIY forums out there on the net.

Oh and a lift on a tear off? My brother subs from a builder who lets him use a lull on most tear offs pushing 10/12 and 60+ squares. As a matter of fact the builder himself let my brother use the lull on his roof twice in two years due to hail damage. 105sq 8/12 10/12 all brick two story. Most every job they are in the yard for a day leveling out the ruts made by the lull. Not sure how many home owners like ruts in there yard?

Don’t even like skid loaders on tear offs now a lull? NO THANKS.