Storm chasers!


#41

[quote=“Agape”]

excuse me sir, but … (and i say this with all due respect)

whomever told you this, is a liar.

and you spreading this false information makes you just as bad.[/quote]

Actually as a former adjuster for 5 years for SF I can confirm what he has said about the one year. I am from Tulsa like you and the reason Tulsa and most of Oklahoma and surrounding states are not like this is they are some of the most hail prone areas in the country. So the local roofing contractors in those areas are set up to handle a much higher volume of business due to the frequency of hail events. And yes the minimum that you have to file a claim is 1 year and in 13 states you have two years. Nationwide is the first to try to get around this by writing into their new policies that homeowners only have 6 months to file a claim for a wind/hail event. This is easy to get around though with a simple call to the local insurance commission. I have never posted on here but this post caused me to join the site to dispute some of the ridiculous things being said on here by people who obviously do not fully understand what they are speaking about. This is a good industry if done right, but unfortunately it is not hard to get into so there are a good amount of scumbags but their companies never last. There are many ways to honor your warranties and if you work for a storm company that has kept the same business name for 5 or so years (documented) then they are probably doing everything above the table. If they operate under multiple name in multiple states then you should probably look elsewhere. As long as you give good customer service it is quite easy to build referrals.


#42

[quote=“ARMasters”]

excuse me sir, but … (and i say this with all due respect)

whomever told you this, is a liar.

and you spreading this false information makes you just as bad.

Actually as a former adjuster for 5 years for SF I can confirm what he has said about the one year. I am from Tulsa like you and the reason Tulsa and most of Oklahoma and surrounding states are not like this is they are some of the most hail prone areas in the country. So the local roofing contractors in those areas are set up to handle a much higher volume of business due to the frequency of hail events. And yes the minimum that you have to file a claim is 1 year and in 13 states you have two years. [size=150]Nationwide is the first to try to get around this by writing into their new policies that homeowners only have 6 months to file a claim for a wind/hail event. This is easy to get around though with a simple call to the local insurance commission.[/size] I have never posted on here but this post caused me to join the site to dispute some of the ridiculous things being said on here by people who obviously do not fully understand what they are speaking about. This is a good industry if done right, but unfortunately it is not hard to get into so there are a good amount of scumbags but their companies never last. There are many ways to honor your warranties and if you work for a storm company that has kept the same business name for 5 or so years (documented) then they are probably doing everything above the table. If they operate under multiple name in multiple states then you should probably look elsewhere. As long as you give good customer service it is quite easy to build referrals.[/quote]

Thanks for joining; it’s always nice to hear information from the “other side of the fence” (& FTR, I have no idea how I managed to miss this thread).

I actually had a Nationwide inspection 1 week ago & we were declined because the most recent hail in the area was June 22, 2009 & this put us @ around 8 months… the inspector did indeed utilize the “6 months out” rule.

For those paying attention, it was the “When Animals Attack!” thread over on the “Construction & Technique” tab. The roof did have obvious evidence of hail & to me, it appeared to be @ least 3 years old.

If I was to call on the State of Texas, what would my argument be? What scare tactics would the insurer attempt to use? Most customers are loathe to push against the insurers for fear of something being listed on their “permanent record”, sort of like a CarFax that follows the insured.

??

Thanks for your insight.


#43

well lets just say what i use uses geo and is built for insurance and is builet proof. Comes with a webinar to teach you how it works with its power. insurance djuster does not normally even look at the home. top teir money fast as you can type everything is pushed out ready to roll.

And let not forget guys YOU MUST HAVE THE HOMEOWNER PAY THE DEDUCTABLE, IF NOT THATS ILLEGAL AND WELL NOT A GOOD IDEA.


#44

[quote=“gtp1003”]well lets just say what i use uses geo and is built for insurance and is builet proof. Comes with a webinar to teach you how it works with its power. insurance djuster does not normally even look at the home. top teir money fast as you can type everything is pushed out ready to roll.

And let not forget guys YOU MUST HAVE THE HOMEOWNER PAY THE DEDUCTIBLE, IF NOT THATS ILLEGAL AND WELL, NOT A GOOD IDEA.[/quote]

Absolutely on the part I bolded.

IMO, that’s the # 1 or 2 knock on the storm chasers. Often, they show up & the salespeople they have don’t know a lot about roofing & are equally deficient in sales, but they do know about caffeine & hustle.

To make up for a lack of sales ability, they hand out free roofs (i.e. no deductible or big ‘fake’ rebates) like it’s Hallowe’en candy.

The other problem is someone who is uneducated in the trade of roofing & they go with the cheapest products that are installed in the cheapest way possible. Sure, the roof might not leak right away but when it does, look out (or don’t look, because a lot of them aren’t in town to answer the phone).

I can’t begin to tell you the # of houses I have won a contract on where the stormers didn’t mention repairs to the cricket, overlay flashing to cover the fascia connection for a low slope porch that was added, or even a simple upgrade in TIME (not product) by blowing the lint line through with a shop vac.


#45

well, in January alone, I got 3 houses totaled that were damaged in April of 2008. Thats almost 2 years old. One was Allstate, and the other 2 were Farmers.

havent had any dealings with nationwide that I can remember, but I know for a fact that Ive had several State Farm claims that were well over a year old paid out with no problems what-so-ever.

Guess every adjuster, every state, every company, and every house is different, isnt it? No need to make generalized statements to try to encompass every situation, because thats obviously not possible.


#46

gtp, ive never seen a post from you where you werent trying to pitch your crap on everyone. what gives


#47

hmm how may posts do i have?? over 2000 you 15 i dont pitch thing you all have fun figuring out simple things.


#48

My husband and I own a small roofing company. Due to the economy & the tremendous cut in sales we were looking to get into insurance work to increase profit. Im curious to know what steps we will need to take in order provide this for homeowners, from beginning to end. Also, any other inside information you have would be extremely helpful since I’m not familiar with insurance work. Thank you.

East Coast Contracting


#49

There are a lot of nuances to it, but the quick & dirty:

  1. Find a customer who has been approved for an insurance claim on their roof.

  2. Do the job for the full amount they were quoted by insurance (or go back to insurance & tell them the $$ is low for ___________ reason(s) & explain why).

  3. Collect the deductible as part of the “full amount” listed above & provide the customer with an invoice or receipt so they can collect any withheld depreciation from the insurer.

End of story.

I find it very interesting that you haven’t done ANY insurance work… how long have y’all been in business?


#50

Insurance Help Questionnaire

Are you using any software to assist you with the adjusters?

If so what are you using and why that program?

Do you pay for the deductible for the customer?

Do you canvass for leads?

If so how many are you using in the field?

Are they trained properly to get leads and able to have rebuttals at the door to get the lead?

Are you using telemarketing?

Do you do mailers?

If so why?

Are you using a camera to show defects in the roof, if so who do you give them to?

Do you manually measure the roof or are you using software to measure for you?

Where are you targeting your area?

How do you target the area?

Do you know the hot area’s if so how do you know?

Do you honestly want help getting the money you want versus whatever they pay you?

How are you trying to close these deals with the insurance adjusters?

And I have more so emailing me I have a better understanding your needs so filling this out would make me customize your need rather than general info and I WILL not do that because everyone is different and trying to respect each person and meet their needs do that clear up the problem?
Drag70buickgs@att.net


#51

I could not agree with you more! Findley Roofing is spreading its reach in the southeast and Academy Roofing is still sending out so called sales people to exchange services for insurance checks or in my opinion roofing on welfare. I have never seen so many new roofs as there are today in Atlanta Georgia. Roofing companies ran by executives that have no idea on how to really do the work. It’s all about the money and production and not quality. It irritates me to no end. I actually got a contract 3 weeks ago in a neighborhood and there were about 15 roofs that needed work and before I could get back and hang some door hangers the storm chasers hit the neighborhood and all is done but mine.

It stinks as there are more new roofs now than I have ever saw and mostly people who don’t know the job. I am a real roofer and they should stay out of our business giving the job away and working on volume

Vann The Roofing Man.

jvhenterprises.org :frowning:


#52

The problem I have with “storm chasers” is they tend to chase a “number” which means they tend to try and maximize the insurance settlement and minimize the roof installation by using inferior products and not giving the homeowner the reasonably best roof for the money paid out by the insurance company.

Example: A decent dollar amount settlement for a 30 year comp roof but storm chaser does not replace all lead jacks (or if he does he uses the small flange lead jacks instead of the large flanged lead jacks to save money and increase his return), no roof jacks replaced, money is received for upgraded hip / ridge caps but “cut” 3-tab are used (improves his return), 3-tab shingles are used at the eaves and rakes for starters and they do not even have the tabs cut off and the “glue line” moved out toward the edge of the roof or they don’t even used pre-trimmed starter shingles such as CT Swiftstart or GAF Prostarter (once again maximizing his return).

Seems that the homeowner gets the short end of the stick and the storm chaser gets all the gravy.

If an honest roofing contractor (local or a good storm chaser) does it right, they get paid for putting on a great roof and the homeowner gets a great roof for the money put forth in the insurance settlement. There should be a balance where the roofer makes a decent profit and the homeowner gets a good roof. But greed gets in the way and quite a few homeowners get skinned.

Too often the focus is on the number instead of on the roof.

I know that after Hurricane Ike, we had a bunch of storm chasers in the Houston area. Sure, there was NO WAY the local contractors could do all of the work themselves and if they say they could have and didn’t want out of towners in the market then they were being greedy themselves.


#53

[quote=“keepitlow”]The problem I have with “storm chasers” is they tend to chase a “number” which means they tend to try and maximize the insurance settlement and minimize the roof installation by using inferior products and not giving the homeowner the reasonably best roof for the money paid out by the insurance company.

Example: A decent dollar amount settlement for a 30 year comp roof but storm chaser does not replace all lead jacks (or if he does he uses the small flange lead jacks instead of the large flanged lead jacks to save money and increase his return), no roof jacks replaced, money is received for upgraded hip / ridge caps but “cut” 3-tab are used (improves his return), 3-tab shingles are used at the eaves and rakes for starters and they do not even have the tabs cut off and the “glue line” moved out toward the edge of the roof or they don’t even used pre-trimmed starter shingles such as CT Swiftstart or GAF Prostarter (once again maximizing his return).

Seems that the homeowner gets the short end of the stick and the storm chaser gets all the gravy.

If an honest roofing contractor (local or a good storm chaser) does it right, they get paid for putting on a great roof and the homeowner gets a great roof for the money put forth in the insurance settlement. There should be a balance where the roofer makes a decent profit and the homeowner gets a good roof. But greed gets in the way and quite a few homeowners get skinned.

Too often the focus is on the number instead of on the roof.

I know that after Hurricane Ike, we had a bunch of storm chasers in the Houston area. Sure, there was NO WAY the local contractors could do all of the work themselves and if they say they could have and didn’t want out of towners in the market then they were being greedy themselves.[/quote]

An excellent post & IMO, that’s the difference between a ROOFER & a SALESMAN.

I can’t begin to tell you how many times I see guys with a ladder who is wearing loafers, khaki slacks & a polo shirt… can’t tell if they want to get on your roof or go to the golf course.

More than likely, 3 short weeks & a fast training class ago, they were selling used cars.


#54

[quote=“keepitlow”]The problem I have with “storm chasers” is they tend to chase a “number” which means they tend to try and maximize the insurance settlement and minimize the roof installation by using inferior products and not giving the homeowner the reasonably best roof for the money paid out by the insurance company.

Example: A decent dollar amount settlement for a 30 year comp roof but storm chaser does not replace all lead jacks (or if he does he uses the small flange lead jacks instead of the large flanged lead jacks to save money and increase his return), no roof jacks replaced, [/quote]

Well, a few thoughts on this.

First off, on almost every roof I inspect(in N Texas), one or more of the lead jacks are chewed away at the top bend over. We suspect squirrels or rats, doesnt really matter.

I will tell the homeowner that the insurance paid for lead jacks. If we put them on and there is a leak from that same chewing after we put the roof on, we are not responsible. I then tell them we can put the rubber boot jacks on and they may start to break down at the rubber in 5-7 years. I inform them any roofer will come by and inspect their jacks for no charge every year(I will, obviously). If they need replacing, they arent very expensive. Plus, I get to see his roof every year. Who knows what opportunities that may lead to? :smiley:

If we put the rubber booted jacks on, we only bill insurance for same. Billing for lead jacks when you put on something other is insurance fraud. Small but still meets the standard.

Frankly, if a contractor is worried about how much he makes on a boot jack,something is not right. Granted you want to max your profit, but sheesh.

As for inferior materials, that is an ethical issue, IMHO.


#55

Just to clarify…
The insurance company owes for what is damaged from a covered peril. In the example of a lead jack boot the insurance company owes the ACV amount at the minimum for the lead jack boot. The insurance company has no control on what the lead jack boot is replaced with or even it is replaced at all. If it is replaced then the RCB are available.

You must remember that if the insurance company pays for anything and it isn’t replaced AND the same item gets damaged from a separate storm that said item won’t get paid for again. IF the insurance company can determine if in fact that said item wasn’t replaced.

What that means in laymans term is that the insurance company won’t pay for same covered damaged item twice.


#56

[quote=“828br”]Just to clarify…
The insurance company owes for what is damaged from a covered peril. In the example of a lead jack boot the insurance company owes the ACV amount at the minimum for the lead jack boot. The insurance company has no control on what the lead jack boot is replaced with or even it is replaced at all. If it is replaced then the RCB are available.

You must remember that if the insurance company pays for anything and it isn’t replaced AND the same item gets damaged from a separate storm that said item won’t get paid for again. IF the insurance company can determine if in fact that said item wasn’t replaced.

What that means in laymans term is that the insurance company won’t pay for same covered damaged item twice.[/quote]

Well they won’t pay for upgrades either.Great point for sure. This is a problem in Atlanta. The storm chasers are giving away Architectural roofs for the money of a 3 tab and giving away the deductible in most cases.Quantity not Quality and I cannot and will not try to compete with that. This crap depreciates the value of our trade when everything is being offered up for free. I care about the end result whether an insurance company funds the project or the owner funds it. The biggest thing in Atlanta is that high unemployment rate has drove many people to work for these outfits just swapping contracts for insurance checks. Again Roofing on welfare and over the past 3 year 3 times the roofing contractors have just over-saturated the marketplace.


#57

[quote=“jvhamby5”]

Well they won’t pay for upgrades either.Great point for sure. This is a problem in Atlanta. The storm chasers are giving away Architectural roofs for the money of a 3 tab and giving away the deductible in most cases.Quantity not Quality and I cannot and will not try to compete with that. This crap depreciates the value of our trade when everything is being offered up for free. I care about the end result whether an insurance company funds the project or the owner funds it. The biggest thing in Atlanta is that high unemployment rate has drove many people to work for these outfits just swapping contracts for insurance checks. Again Roofing on welfare and over the past 3 year 3 times the roofing contractors have just over-saturated the marketplace[/quote]

Good points.

I must admit, I will rarely put on a 3-tab roof. In most cases, I can get the homeowner to see the value in putting on the Architectural, be it an insurance claim or not.

I dont like putting down a 3-tab roof in a neighborhood of Architectural roofs because if I have a sign in that yard, potential customers in that area will see the roof and think it looks inferior to the neighbors roofs. They probably wont know why, but they will call the guy whose sign is in front of the nicer looking roof. Odd, sure, but I have signed folks up because the other guy put on a three tab. He was too cheap or couldnt sell the homeowner on the upgrade. My customer pointed to the roof and said it looked terrible. I got the work.

Not really fair, but I decided that day to never put the 3-tab on if possible.

As for your comments on the unemployment creating lots of new roofing contractors, you are correct. Its breathtaking actually. Pretty much zero barrier to entry if your able to handle the physical part of the job. That allows anyone to start work tomorrow if they choose. Most will fail, but enough are around that it really causes homeowners to be put off.

That being said, if your a good company that has a solid reputation, you will do fine. you just have to adapt.


#58

[quote=“PeteW”]

[quote=“jvhamby5”]

Well they won’t pay for upgrades either.Great point for sure. This is a problem in Atlanta. The storm chasers are giving away Architectural roofs for the money of a 3 tab and giving away the deductible in most cases.Quantity not Quality and I cannot and will not try to compete with that. This crap depreciates the value of our trade when everything is being offered up for free. I care about the end result whether an insurance company funds the project or the owner funds it. The biggest thing in Atlanta is that high unemployment rate has drove many people to work for these outfits just swapping contracts for insurance checks. Again Roofing on welfare and over the past 3 year 3 times the roofing contractors have just over-saturated the marketplace[/quote]

Good points.

I must admit, I will rarely put on a 3-tab roof. In most cases, I can get the homeowner to see the value in putting on the Architectural, be it an insurance claim or not.

I dont like putting down a 3-tab roof in a neighborhood of Architectural roofs because if I have a sign in that yard, potential customers in that area will see the roof and think it looks inferior to the neighbors roofs. They probably wont know why, but they will call the guy whose sign is in front of the nicer looking roof. Odd, sure, but I have signed folks up because the other guy put on a three tab. He was too cheap or couldnt sell the homeowner on the upgrade. My customer pointed to the roof and said it looked terrible. I got the work.

Not really fair, but I decided that day to never put the 3-tab on if possible.

As for your comments on the unemployment creating lots of new roofing contractors, you are correct. Its breathtaking actually. Pretty much zero barrier to entry if your able to handle the physical part of the job. That allows anyone to start work tomorrow if they choose. Most will fail, but enough are around that it really causes homeowners to be put off.

That being said, if your a good company that has a solid reputation, you will do fine. you just have to adapt.[/quote]

I started installing Architectural roofs 16 year ago, Mostly GAF Timberline and ELK Prestique, I hired a sub crew to catch my slack and did a 3 tab roof and they had been shingling for about 5 years and are Latino.Great hard workers and had no clue how to lay out the 10" lines or vertical bond lines to tie in around dormers. They did not like that I made them tear out the short courses they tried to pass by me, just because they wanted to float the roof like an Architectural can be done. I would recommend popping lines all the way to prevent mistakes no matter which shingle you install. I see so many crews not laying out the roofs and just slamming on product. Roofing is more an art to me than just a piggy bank.Storm chasers are hiring these crews and I trained the one crew just for a Storm chaser to take them from me. They actually know how to do detail work right now. It still irritates me that I spent a year training them and now one of the Hail Chasers took them and my work is being reproduced by methods taught. I am just doing repairs and roofing what I can handle now. The money bubble will burst and then the competition will be narrowed down in Atlanta. I’ll be around for all of the horror stories of folks not taking care of the warranties and leak call backs. I’ll be mopping up the mess as usual.


#59

Looks like American Shingle finally shut down. Lots of Homeowners left holding the bag.

blog.al.com/businessnews/2010/08 … ce_am.html


#60

I just noticed American Shingle is GAF Certified Master Elite as well.