Standard practice at dormer sidewalls during reroofing?


#1

Hope someone can answer this query for me. We had our home reroofed when we purchased it in mid-2007. It is a steeply pitched hip-roof with front and rear dormers. At some point in the past, vinyl siding was installed directly over the original, still intact, wood shingle siding.

I do not think the contractor installed new flashing at the dormer sidewalls or frontwalls. Is it common practice to reflash here during reroofing, or to just leave the old flashing underneath the original wood siding? If not common practice would it be something I would have to specifically ask for, or would the roofer offer it as an option?

The roofer was also supposed to install ice and water shield; wouldn’t that need to be extended up the sidewall some ways, under the vinyl siding at least, in order to be effective at that junction?

I’m asking because we had some water getting in on Christmas eve this year; my husband hung out the dormer in the rain and said he couldn’t see any flashing or ice and water shield going up between the two layers of siding, just a line of caulk at the edge of the new shingles. A small ice dam had formed diagnally up the roof from the corner of the the dormer, and meltwater was flowing right into the house.

The roofer is coming to look at it tomorrow but I don’t really trust him (due to another issue - we had leakage around our chimney for an entire year, after his crew came out three times to check and he suggested we have masonry work done - which we did, to the tune of nearly $1000 - then the thing still leaked, finally the crew came back a fourth time and reflashed the chimney, admitting to me they had not done it during the original job even though it was in the contract. So you might see why I don’t feel very confident at this point.)

Sorry for the long-windedness … but thanks if you can offer any help.


#2

did your contract call for new flashing at the dormer cheek walls ? if so it would have also required striping all the siding to expose the bare wall sheathing. thats the only way to do it right.But some customers get spooked by the additional cost that is necessary.


#3

I agree With RooferJ.

Many times you can re-use existing flashings if they were dis-assembled carefully and correctly. We have done this many times on cheapo jobs, but it is definitely not the preferred method.

There would surely be extra costs involved with removing and replacing the flashings, especially behind two courses of siding, but the job would then be done properly.

Problem here is that when you have jacklegs offering to do the job without replacing the flashings, and indiscriminately offering a long warranty (which they will probably not honor after the check is cashed anyways), it is nearly impossible to sell the “upgrade” at the additional cost. Only the savviest of customers will research the issues and realize that the added cost is pennies a day over the life of the roof.

Being trouble-free well beyond the warranty period is well worth the few hundred dollars it cost to do it right.

Hope this helps.


#4

Thanks for the reply. No, the contract only specified new flashing at the chimney (which they didn’t do). I wouldn’t have known to ask them about it, though, not being a roofer myself, nor did they offer me the option. I certainly would have said “yes” as that seems like a critical point.


#5

i dont like to tear apart layers siding to get my shingles sealed to the wall, unless i have to.
that may have been the case.

gweedo.


#6

A good roofer would have replaced your chimney flashing the first time and charged accordingly. They would have also informed you of the siding situation and at least re-used the old step flashing. (sounds like they just butted the shingles and caulked the edge)

You can expect this roofer to add another layer of tar or caulking to the side of the dormer.

You really need a different roofer.


#7

did they tear off the old roof first?

ice & water shield is recommended at roof to wall flashings…but not required by code (unless maybe new construction)


#8

Yes but unless the I&W shield extends up the wall. it dosnt really do any good.Even then, though it should be done it would not cover the sins of bad or worn out flashing.


#9

Tell that criminal to come back and flash the dormer.
You paid for a new roof and you are getting water in.It doesn’t matter if the contract said new flashing or not.


#10

i always reflash everything, but dormers it depends if its shingled than yeah i include it on mine…siding etc…, but if its something i can’t do within reason like cedar plank…cement board siding… aluminum…etc… than i check it…if its ok i reuse it, but i find alot of time the step flashing to be nailed to low (wrong) and i tell the customer pop a few pictures and charge them according thats how it goes far as iceguard goes i don’t think its the problem because iceguard hasn’t been around forever and roofs didn’t always leak, so they probably flashed something wrong…just my two cents


#11

Thanks everyone. I live in Maine, so this is a big issue. I think he should have at least offered me the option of reflashing around the dormers. I’m appalled that he thinks this is my problem simply because I didn’t know to ask for it.

Is it acceptable practice, in a situation where there are two layers of siding, to lay new step flashing over the old on the deck and between the siding layers, as opposed to stripping all the siding? This is readily accessible area and it would be easy to do (well, it would have been easy while they were laying the roof, but maybe not so much now).


#12

one more note is that alot of ppl use the older sizes of step 3" x 4" x 7" flashings and it doesnt work to good with metric sizes , but i’ve never ever seen step leak that was done right ever if it leaks its usually because they nailed it low or they lap like an inch or their just plain to small i know and i follow certainteeds 2" past the exposed edge of a shingle so if your exposure is 5 5/8" than you need 7 5/8" however we use 8" and almost always use metric 30 yr lams… i’m really happy i can go with certainteed again


#13

I am also in Maine.
Question #1…did they strip off the original roofing?
#2 how many layers?
#3 how did they fill in the space between
the new roof and the old vinyl siding
J channel.
#4 did they install new counter flashing
under your existing chimney flashing?
#5 how did you open up the wall/ siding/
trim installation to see all of the
things that you observed?..hanging out a
window. If you are talking about a
small dormer that is just about the size
of a window, with a little trim, there
could be numerous opportunities for leaks.
under windows, around the corners,
at the bottom of the valleys, etc.

If your in the southern Maine area…I could look at it for you, but I would really demand that the roofer that installed the most recent roof do it properly. especially considering that HIS way didn’t work. If it had worked…you wouldn’t be here
and we wouldn’t be having this conversation. One bad word to the town building inspector about your dissatisfaction with this particular roofer will guarantee you at least, that he won’t do this to anyone else in your town. If you are/ were willing to pay the upcharge if he recommended dormer wall
R&R…then paying now shouldn’t be a problem. If you think he implied that he was doing someting that he didn’t do…let a court determine, after reviewing your contract, who is in the wrong.

Siding leaks in areas above new roof areas are a common problem that we deal with as contractors…
doing anything short of complete replacement is a gamble in my opinion.


#14

[quote=“thebaycompany”]I am also in Maine.
Question #1…did they strip off the original roofing? Yes
#2 how many layers? One layer
#3 how did they fill in the space between
the new roof and the old vinyl siding
J channel. Not sure what the J channel is, I assume the strip along the bottom of siding which should be attached to wall surface but is not (this is how I observed that there is only a poor bead of silicone caulk between the new roof shingles and the old wood siding shingles.) #4 did they install new counter flashing
under your existing chimney flashing? (Not until a year later, after I complained repeatedly about leaking in the attic around the chimney.) #5 how did you open up the wall/ siding/
trim installation to see all of the
things that you observed?..hanging out a
window. If you are talking about a
small dormer that is just about the size
of a window, with a little trim, there
could be numerous opportunities for leaks.
under windows, around the corners,
at the bottom of the valleys, etc.
The vinyl siding is loose along the bottom of the sidewall. The window is not very large, but big enough for my 6’4" husband to sit on the sill and stretch around the outside corner of the dormer.
If your in the southern Maine area…I could look at it for you, but I would really demand that the roofer that installed the most recent roof do it properly. especially considering that HIS way didn’t work. If it had worked…you wouldn’t be here
and we wouldn’t be having this conversation. One bad word to the town building inspector about your dissatisfaction with this particular roofer will guarantee you at least, that he won’t do this to anyone else in your town. If you are/ were willing to pay the upcharge if he recommended dormer wall
R&R…then paying now shouldn’t be a problem. If you think he implied that he was doing someting that he didn’t do…let a court determine, after reviewing your contract, who is in the wrong. Thank you, I might be contacting you in the future. I think he should correct this problem regardless of what’s in the contract, since we paid a handsome price for a new roof, and it leaks. Pretty hard to get around that. If he refuses, we will go to court. But truthfully, I would rather someone else do the work at this point. Will definitely talk to the town building inspector, too.

Siding leaks in areas above new roof areas are a common problem that we deal with as contractors…
doing anything short of complete replacement is a gamble in my opinion.[/quote]

I’m not sure what a “siding leak” is?


#15

every check the window sill and the header on the window for leakage? i’ve seen that a lot on dormers… window sills have problems alot


#16

No, we located the leak, and it’s definitely not the window … we got into the crawlspace and found it. Thanks for asking.


#17

Zcar in PA you have to do it all or you lose no matter what. I see your from pa. I had a friend leave out 2 rows of felt the homeowner seen him do it. He said in court he didn’t do it because he ran short which was true and said felt was only for temporary reasons but the building inspector said no its not its for a class A fire rating and so he lost. I think dripedge is code even now maybe and ice guard definitely is 24" past the inside wall used to be 21". Point being that if you go to court with a homeowner you’ll lose


#18

Have someone else fix it and have them take pictures of the improper installation. Caulk is not a going to last at most 5 years.New roofs if done properly do not need caulk,and like you said it is leaking.The roofer you hired did he put the caulk on while doing the roof or was it after it leaked? If it was after then he had a chance to fix and did not. Then someone else is needed, then think about court. CAN NOT stand hackers.


#19

I’m still curious what does caulking step flashing accomplish? I’ve never caulked step it would actually make the step ineffective? Channel flash gets caulked on the hem but if steps caulked its already wrong.