Roofing Nail Punctures Freon Line - Whose at Fault?


#21

I would tell the homeowner, that since you have to pay for the damage, you will have to turn them into the local building inspector about the problem so that it can’t happen again and so that it can be repaired the correct way…


#22

I would have personally tried offering to split the difference with the homeowner due to unforseen circumstances, if they persisted then I would have ate it and chalked it up for experience points. Its all ways better to do your best to please the homeowner no matter how much it hurts. Luckily we have have our own network of HVAC, Plumbers, Electricians etc to help with things of that nature. We scratch their backs they scratch ours.


#23

I would have personally tried offering to split the difference with the homeowner due to unforseen circumstances, if they persisted then I would have ate it and chalked it up for experience points.

I’ll agree with that.


#24

I’m in the middle of this situation right now.
except it was with a 1/4 inch pvc plumbing pipe!!

I was renailing the entire roof with
8d ring shanks 6 inches on center.

The pipe was wedged against the rafter and the sheeting. Water started gushing out of the plywood right away. Which is a sight to see for a roofer.

It took about 3 minutes to get the main water valve shut off. But the damage had been done to the entire bathroom ceiling. A plumber friend of mine came and fixed it for 50bucks and the main valve was turned back on within 30 minutes. I am still waiting on the homeowners call to repaint his ceiling…sigh


#25

It sounds like you missed the rafter or the nail went through on an angle.

Ed


#26

[quote=“ed the roofer”]It sounds like you missed the rafter or the nail went through on an angle.

Ed[/quote]

Yes…


#27

Doesn’t your contract have a provision for unforseen problems and damages that occure while using standard installation practices?

When the problem was discovered were you given the chance to come out and actually see the nail through the line? How do you know the HVAC guy didn’t just create a problem so he could have a nice bill for the home owner.

I dissagree with some opinions that it’s “good business” to just pay for it. Good business is clearly explaining the ground rules for the relationship you have with your client, which includes situations like this.

I explain to “EVERY” client that we are not responsible for stuff exactly like your situation. If they don’t like it, I don’t walk from the job I RUN!

Your client is being unreasonable and you should NOT admint guilt or offer to pay them anything. If you do you’ll be pegged as a push over in your community.

Let them take you to small claims court if they want they’ll loose.

Good luck!


#28

[quote=“RidgeWalker”]Doesn’t your contract have a provision for unforseen problems and damages that occure while using standard installation practices?

When the problem was discovered were you given the chance to come out and actually see the nail through the line? How do you know the HVAC guy didn’t just create a problem so he could have a nice bill for the home owner.

I dissagree with some opinions that it’s “good business” to just pay for it. Good business is clearly explaining the ground rules for the relationship you have with your client, which includes situations like this.

I explain to “EVERY” client that we are not responsible for stuff exactly like your situation. If they don’t like it, I don’t walk from the job I RUN!

Your client is being unreasonable and you should NOT admint guilt or offer to pay them anything. If you do you’ll be pegged as a push over in your community.

Let them take you to small claims court if they want they’ll loose.

Good luck![/quote]

I Agree with you on this one.


#29

I agree and as far as hidden and unforeseen conditions, that is the way I roll too.

I posted my feelings about that earlier, but too many contractors feel like being charity contractors.

Have respect for yourselves.

If you don’t, what customers will.

Ed


#30

I agree with Ed. Too many charity contractors. You are in the business to make money, not give it. If it was truly your fault then of course pay for it, but considering the line was not up to code, it becomes solely the homeowner and hvac guys problem.

Quoting roofboy here “If you tore off the roof and left nails in the driveway would you pay if the h/o got a flat? Good business practice says yes.”

We just had a situation with this. The homeowner pulled into his driveway RIGHT next to the dumpster a few minutes after we got done tearing off. Naturally he got a flat tire and boy did he get mad. First thing that comes out of his mouth is “Well I guess you guys get to buy a brand new set of tires” I was told the foreman replied " I guess you did not read the contract in which it says in the third section that we ARE NOT responsible for nails causing flat tires during the day while we are working and before it is cleaned up. He didn’t like hearing that and his whole attitude changed because of his poor choice of judgment. Am I responsible for that?

A woman backed out of her driveway and hit the front of our trailer causing a dent in her bumper. Am I responsible for that? No, but since I felt bad because the trailer is not normally there and they were very nice to the employees while working on their neighbors house. I paid them for it.

I bet we all have a million stories like that. It is not your problem. I would not pay it. If it was covered, how would you have ever known it was there. On top of that, the line is not up to code. Maybe you should tell the homeowner that you will have a building inspector come and look and if he finds that the line is up to code you will pay for both the inspector and the line being redone. If it is not you should make the homeowner pay for the inspector as well as any of the extra time it cost you and I would put that into a contract.

TOO MANY PEOPLE ARE LOOKING FOR FREEBIES!!

and another ramble…


#31

[quote=“BAMBAMM5144”]

TOO MANY PEOPLE ARE LOOKING FOR FREEBIES!!

**and another ramble… ** [/quote]

But a worthwhile one for others to learn from.

Also, each situation merits it’s own consideration. If the customers have done nice things for the crew, even by leaving a pitcher of ice water on a daily basis, that would go a long way towards me going against a firm stance and I would possibly go out of my way to additionally accommodate them, but I would also expect that to be rewarded with a loyal referral upon satisfactory completion.

Ed


#32

Let me tell you about my story I have an ac guy not the homeowner suing me for $1300.00. Thats crazy the homeowner is not suing me. Well first of all on a sloped roof the only way this should happen is by the bottom above the soffit where the line goes in or when you nail a piece of plywood down into the stud. The ac line goes threw the studs most of the time, they drilled holes in them when they run the lines threw the attic. Well this should never happen, there is a code in my state Virginia mechanical code :

305.5 Protection against physical damage. In concealed
locations where piping, other than cast-iron or steel, is installed
through holes or notches in studs, joists, rafters or similar members less than 1.5 inches (38 mm) from the nearest edge of the member, the pipe shall be protected by shield plates. Protective
shield plates shall be a minimum of 0.062-inch-thick (1.6 mm)
steel, shall cover the area of the pipe where the member is
notched or bored and shall extend a minimum of 2 inches (51
mm) above sole plates and below top plates.

They are supposed to build a house with this in mind , this is not supposed to happen.


#33

The code for putting shingles in New Mexico is 3/4" into wood or through the deck. Out here most of the HVAC is on the ground and run into the wall and then into the attic. If they use the rafters at all it is put on hangers. These mistakes are usually made in a retrofit because of bad access. That guy that found the leak was probably the one who installed it. Tell the customer to have him discount the repair because even the customer knows that you cant have the copper line up against the bottom of the deck. The guy that suggested short nails upon attic inspection, I kind of wonder how many patches of shingles he had blow off. That is a poor installation. When you sell roofs, the customer could be put off by you crawling around in his houses attic. They usually think your looking for line item to charge them extra. Suppose you saw that, “Oh, gee mister another workman has to come out before we do the roof”. They will find another cheaper guy to do it and take their chances.


#34

Holy old post batman!

We have hit AC lines about 4 or 5 times in 2 story houses. Always happens in the summer, and we know as soon as it happens, and we have paid for it 100% of the time.

should probably add a clause in my contract eliminating me from these responsibilities, seeing as how I have patched several areas of drywall lately too, when we are renailing the decking, little pieces of mudd fall out of the ceiling where drywall screws were not sunk in enough ($500 worth mud and paint on one house) and another where a picture fell off the wall and broke the frame (even tho i told them to remove anything not secure on the walls) and ive only had to pay for one flat tire.

ok, enough rambling. lol


#35

I just had this happen for the first time. I had my HVAC guy out the next day and he fixed it. $260 total. I got the homeowner to agree to splitting 50%/50%. He was happy. I just asked him a simple question… How am I supposed to see the line under the decking. He agreed that there was no way. Therefore, when I told him I would “help him out” and pay for half, he was thrilled!


#36

mrroofer, what the f—? don’t ever bad mouth someone you don’t know. it’s guys like you that give real roofers a bad name. if you have to be a smartass do it somewhere else.


#37

All of our proposals carry a disclaimer to cover HVAC lines and sheetrock mud. If we didn’t have the disclaimer, we would eat the cost.


#38

[quote=“thorroofer”]Let me tell you about my story I have an ac guy not the homeowner suing me for $1300.00. Thats crazy the homeowner is not suing me. Well first of all on a sloped roof the only way this should happen is by the bottom above the soffit where the line goes in or when you nail a piece of plywood down into the stud. The ac line goes threw the studs most of the time, they drilled holes in them when they run the lines threw the attic. Well this should never happen, there is a code in my state Virginia mechanical code :

305.5 Protection against physical damage. In concealed
locations where piping, other than cast-iron or steel, is installed

I bid against this guy the other day. He’s @ $175 a sq. Why I don’t know.
through holes or notches in studs, joists, rafters or similar members less than 1.5 inches (38 mm) from the nearest edge of the member, the pipe shall be protected by shield plates. Protective
shield plates shall be a minimum of 0.062-inch-thick (1.6 mm)
steel, shall cover the area of the pipe where the member is
notched or bored and shall extend a minimum of 2 inches (51
mm) above sole plates and below top plates.

They are supposed to build a house with this in mind , this is not supposed to happen.[/quote]


#39

get a life. im here to stay, so get over it.


#40

[quote=“mrroofer”]

get a life. im here to stay, so get over it.[/quote]

LMAO! you mean 2 years later, you arent gonna just up and leave because he said so? LOLOLOL