Roofers in general


#1

Look, Im not gonna sit here and bash one roofer, who may very well be a good roofer. But, when you start calling names because I have an opinion, then something is wrong with you.
I now live in an area where I see alot of over charging, less than sub par work and just in general, a bad roofing ethic.
Im not a roofer trying to hit the lottery with a few good over charges on a roof. Im a roofer who actually cares about what he does, and what the customer gets in return. I rather enjoy my job, and I make it a point to make sure I do everything possible to get what the customer needs right and with a fair price.
Now just because you have a huge company, and a big name in town, does not mean your a good roofer. Alot more comes with a responsibility of roofing. Caring is a big concern of mine. if you dont care, you can charge what you want, and get away with it.
You personally, as a owner, can be a very good roofer, but what about the people who work for you?Are they just as good as you? Do they think like you? Would they do the same as you in any situation? More than often, not.
So just because you dont agree with me Arron, does not mean I dont know what Im talking about. Just means Im not into charging a whole lot for the same job , and Im almost 99% sure, I will come out with less money, but with a better application method, and general all around better roof than you or your employees will ever come out with.


#2

Its not thatr I dont agree fundamentally, but using the language you do is detrimental to the entire industry.

How much do you think those Levis on your ass cost to produce? a dollar, maybe two? You paid what? 40 bucks? 2000% markup.

You obviously klnow nothing of me and my operations. I am an owner/operator of a small (5 man) crew. We strive for perfection on everything we lay our hands to. This takes pride, and SKILLED craftsmen. I mean career roofers. This takes employee compensation and benefits to keep these men fairly paid. When the payroll burden is over 50 bucksan hour, OH and profit not included, how can you say anything else? Sheesh. Do you carry work coomp on your men? Do you have trucks? Do you have auto ins on those trucks? Do you have a dinky little storage “shop” like I do? I am as low as I can go on everything in my area to keep OH down, and yet you speak of me a a “huge company” thats ridiculous.

Do you do business for profit? I do. We do not accept the added liability asociated with waterproofing buildings for free. Owner’s salary? Do you only get paid while on the roof? Many roofers do this, but are just as broke as they were when they were working for another, but now they have all the added risks and none of the reward.

You do business how you see fit, but do not tell someone that they are getting ripped off because someone charges more than you for the quality roofing and outstanding customer service we offer.

Youre right about one thng here…we DO have a good name in our area.

The reason I get my price is BECAUSE we care, not despite it. A quality roof is more valuable than a shoddy one, and cost more to install properly. Too bad most homeowners do not see it this way.


#3

Look Arron, I guess Im not educated enough to say things in a way that all would like to hear.I say whats on my mind and Im very blunt. Im not generally rude, I just dont beat around the bush.
Look, I work for myself. I work hard and I do the same as you claim. I have alot of pride in what I do. You have to admit, you have walked on a roof at one time or another and said to yourself, " What was this guy thinking before?"
I have worked for smaller companies, and I have worked for larger ones. In a fair statement, I would say bad workmanship is accepted in both places. Even alot of owners dont take the time to make sure things are being done with self pride and craftmanship.
But to call me a schmuck because you didnt ask how big I was, you just assumed, that because I was cheaper, that I was a hack. Like you Arron, I have gone on my own at the tender age of 43 because I put alot of time in with a company that dropped my quality, and wanted more production. Not saying that i couldnt have, but because I am a lil older and a slower, I was over run with a bunch of co workers that didnt care, and did it wrong, no felt, short cuts, and in general, things I couldnt accept anymore. And the owner just booted this poor guy for shoddy for work for over $6000. U gettin my point?
I think that when I finish a job, clean up and pack up, I want to know in my heart and head that it was done right and I dont have to come back unless mother nature makes a calling and it wasnt my fault.
So maybe my prices will go up after a time, but I will have built for that reputation and I still dont know if over $6000 is what I would go to for and upgrade in prices to cover more cost. if it works for you and cover your cost, then kool.
And honestly, and 26 sq, and 2/3s of a day, you just walked away with a nice penny, with 3 guys. Providing its a one layer roof.Yes, 2 layers go up in price. Common knowledge


#4

26 squares of 20 year:
material with tax <>= $1,500
pay 3 guys $20 an hour for 8 hours remove and install:
labor with labor burden<>= $800
Dump <>= $50

your proffit outta $3,400 is going to be around $1000
pay your taxes you end up with like $750

outa that you pay your business overhead.

i guess its ok if you have no work, but it will be mainly to put food in the table ,no room to grow. i will admit it sounds cheap. i think fair price would be more like $5,900 but every contractor can charge what they want.

i think is fair you get a markup of 25-30% from your expenses
you do use your credit to buy materials.
you do get stuck with unemployment when things slow down
you do get the job by advertising somehow

but thats just my opinion

:wink:


#5

I didnt call you a schmuck because of the size of your comapny, I called you a schmuck for the general assumptions, and speaking while lacking the experience of the business to say someone else, anyone else, isa ripoff.

I would not do a roof that size if Im going to walk away with 1300.00 after labor and materials. 1300 minus 300 per day overhead leaves 700.00…owner’s salary, accountant, taxes, leaves…nothing in profit.

Yes, quality is number one (customer satisfaction and customer service), employees come next, and then me.


#6

I’m the best roofer on this site, so everybody can shut up. :slight_smile:


#7

honestly guys you really sound like a bunch of kids, and that might not mean much coming from another adult, but think of it this way. ITS NOT COMING FROM ANOTHER ADULT. I am an 18 year old kid, and yes I roof, I also frame houses and yes I do know what I am doing.
On the roof my labourer, is myself. I get my own shingles and tare off just as much and more as the rest of the guys on my crew and still lay 12- 15 bundles an hour, valleys hips cottage ends you name I can shingle 'er, frame it dead eye dick straight too.
What is the need to insult one another over roofing methods and prices? are you saving face? is it because of your pride? get over it guys come on. If someone thinks my prices are too high I say you know that is ok there is alot of work in the industry. But something else, as many people that think I charge too much jump on my price the next day as well, many people have come to me and said we are very happy with your work and your price is very reasonable. Customers happy. end of story. We are all in this game to make a living, but without making the customer happy, how do we make a living at all?
Do it your own way and let the customers decide.


#8

I have found this website to be nothing but a joke. These forums here are for people that need to boost their ever growing egos to prove how much better of a roofer they are than the whole rest of the world. They are not here to help educate each other they are here to bash the hell out of anybody that doesn’t do it their way. If your looking for a fight just post something here, there will plenty of people to inflate their chest and hold their fists up ready for the fight. I have been roofing for 25 years and know I still need to learn more, but this is not the place to find answers…just a lot of head games and BS. I have come to the conclusion that the people here that have a high # of posts are the bully’s of the block, watch out for them, they will always be ready to fight.
I hope you guys that keep posting here will soon learn that kind hearted education is a valuable asset. Good Day.


#9

Sorry Pixie, I have to disagree with you. Most of the time I am the first to answer a question, I give my answer to the best of my knowledge and opinion. I have never jumped on anybody for their answer

Now I did say something to one poster, one time, that was attacking another poster. But I have never put down another posters answer.

I think this site is a good site for a homeowner to get roofing answers from some pretty good roofers.


#10

You may be the exception G.


#11

Shall we dig up some of Pixie’s rants?

Is schmuck a bad name? I am sorry.


#12

I thought schmuck was like…nerd…or dork…or something off center, but not insulting. OK Im an ahole.


#13

Sorry Aaron, G-Tape is the only exception. I see you posting on 3 or 4 other sites and your posts there are not as mean as they are here, for some reason this site just brings out the worst of people and that is sad. The other sites are at least more positive in nature and have better educational qualities.
The only reason to come to this site is to see what round the fight is in and who’s winning… Entertaing…yes; educational…no.
I have a 8’x12’ room for my library and it is completly full of books, mauals, binders, pamphlets, literature, ect. on roofing, siding, windows, doors and gutters. Even with all that and 23 years of experience I know there is a lot more to learn. With age comes wisdom, my fighting days are done but my thirst for information on technical applications is growing stronger everyday. I wish you well here, and will see you in the other forums where someday you may just answer one of my most burning questions.
Good Day.


#14

Aside from lightheartedly calling someone a schmuck, my posts in here are mean? Ok go find one and show me, please.

Too bad people read more into things than is actually intended. Sorry you see me this way, but you will how you will.


#15

Well well, with read this it well concerns me. If you can explain how you can charge less and put out a better product with knowing this takes more time i would love to hear this. Sound to me like we are in this for a short term. Insurance costs tons of cash. and unless you are working just to do something your insaine. We have been in business for over 30 years and to be honest i have seen people like you come and go all day long and you dont impress me at all. Talking to people like Aaron who is well repected in this forum like that. You dont know how to price jobs admit it. If you did you would charge more. Secondly, 3 guys on a roof does not look professional. Atleast 5. Whoo hoo gonna loose it.

Customers only know what is told to them and mainly if you knew anything about this business you would know price is a big part UNLESS YOU CAN SELL. Obviously you cant. Price to me is well a numbe rnothing more. I have sold jobs that should go for half but if the customer is comfortable with you and KNOWS your quality the sky is the limit. You SIR are the reason the PROS are having to well Lose good people to adapt. Hell I took a large pay cut to keep all my guys on. But I understand 1 thing clear as day. I know cheap will always stay cheap thinkin your makin money. Think all you want when you can sell 15 foot of valley for over 2500.00 talk to me. Just another trunk slammer. Get in your trunk and find another country.

Sadly is you prob dont even have insurance, advertising, gas, electric, phones etc costs because you work out of your truck. Well stability is a major concern in this business due to stupidity is rampant with 56% of roofs done last year done inccorectly. I am sorry to all who read I am just really disturbed when idiots like this spout of to people like Aaron who is a damn good flat roof specialist. WHen you get an education in this business talk untill then keep you gripes to your LITTLE crew. 26 square in 2/3’s of a day. Done that in my prime with a laborer in 1 day. Talk when you do 35+ sqaure 2 layer 8/12 in 10 hours. Untill then be quiet this is a forum for professionals not cheap trunk slammers. My appoligies to anyone else other than “SHUMUCK”. Learn the business utill you spout off your just starting out and are as green as grass and we all knows what rimes with grass.


#16

canuck, u hand nail 3 y to 4 square in an hour all by your lonesome. what pitch, valleys , dormers , right u must be 18 because u have no idea what u are talking about


#17

also, canuk we work 10 hour days at your pace you could lay 30 square in a day, u should earn 3 maybe 4 thousand a day. u are awesome. lol


#18

Wonderful Rant! That should be made a “STICKY”. Pride Roofing has the most informative, cut to the chase, honest, old school (a lost art), do it right the first time, knowledgeable, get what you “payed for” posts that I have seen “cut and dried”. Plus I have only just joined the forum to see that! Thanks, "Pride Roofing’ for the reliable information. Keep up the great support! :smiley:


#19

Why thank you Longair. There are alot of other knowlegeable people out here also. Aaron pixie QRFL just to name a few. SOmedays i get tired of hearing the bs and well i spout off. Sometimes I step on feet and dont mean too. Either way Thanks for to confidence and kepp posting when need Good specialist postin not some of these trunk slammers.


#20

From a customer standpoint, that’s the last thing you want to hear. And I guarantee, those same costumers would no longer be comfortable with you if they knew you were charging double for a job.