Removing Peel & Stck


#1

I’m told that Florida building code (except for Dade County) requires that peel & stick be placed directly on the plywood deck. How do you remove that in the future?

In Miami-Dade County they require a base sheet cap nailed directly on the deck, then the P&S.

Peel & Stick does not seal around nails, so, if the roof cover (shingle/tile) is lost in a hurricane, it would still leak, and not be able to be left exposed for long in the sun, so, I don’t see the big advantage of P&S. Still have to put up a tarp after loosing the roof, but you can’t remove the old peel and stick.

What am I missing?


#2

If you are using “Grace” P&S you might as well replace the deck compared to removing it in the future.

As for the product itself, if you lose a partial roof in a hurricane, you are going to get such a minimal leak around the nails, if any. “Grace” P&S has the ability to stay in open weather for a great deal of time. The biggest advantage is that in florida weather conditions, P&S stays on a roof and of coarse your shingles and felt do not. At least you have a better chance of saving yourself from major water damage using the product.


#3

I am curious.
When you Florida guys say that you need a peel and stick underlayment, are you referring to peel and stick modified or the more common Ice & water shield.
The way it is spoken about I can’t really tell…

Don’t try to remove Grace/Vycor Ice & water shield, it is the real deal and doesn’t come off.
All the other brands are similar knockoffs, some are better than others.
most are just plain junk, and don’t really stick at all.

Real Ice & water shield does seal around the nails, that is it’s intended purpose.
So will peel and stick modified, just not as well.
If your roof blows off in a hurricane the nails will more than likely remain in the deck, plugging said holes.


#4

ditto the last sentence of Axioms reply.
i have torn off 3 peal n sticks.
none of them stuck to the deck.
it seams to dry out and come unstuck, after a few years.
after all the hurricanes florida dont know what it wants to do. this county says that, that county says this.
the truth is, were learning as we go.

if your wooried about your roof blowing off, then put on a 5v crimp metal with alot of screws.
wont matter what you put under it.
it stays on.

if ya need help im here in tampa bay.

gweedo.


#5

The peel and stick type modifieds and underlayments that we put down will never come up unless they rip the decking up. You just go over it in the future.


#6

[quote=“gweedo”]…i have torn off 3 peal n sticks.
none of them stuck to the deck.it seams to dry out and come unstuck, after a few years.[/quote]

Any brand that you couldn’t just peel off? Your experience indicates to me that that the entire roofing system will fly if it’s an unnailed low slope roof that relies of the adhesive to hold.

This report from NRCA confirms that there are great differences between brands of Peel & Stick, and that the sealing of nail holes is for the most part, a myth (except for two brands). professionalroofing.net/arti … D=961#fig1

[quote]gweedo wrote:
after all the hurricanes florida dont know what it wants to do. this county says that, that county says this.the truth is, were learning as we go.[/quote]

You hit the nail right on the head. AND I wouldn’t want to be the test rat for the newest “solution”

[quote]gweedo wrote
if your wooried about your roof blowing off, then put on a 5v crimp metal with alot of screws.
wont matter what you put under it.
it stays on.[/quote]

Next time I get a chance at a new roof I’ll go that 5V crimp route, I’ve seen you recommend it before for Hurricanes. But, the roof I’m dealing with now is a low slope addition 1/2" on 12.


#7

yeah you dont want to put 5v crimp on a low slope.

and i dont know what brands of peal in stick stick better than others, cause it just hasnt been on the market long enough.
but i did tear off several, for reasons other than leakage, that were no stuck so ill be nailing mine in the future
i like peal n stick just dont know why the ones i tour off were not stuck.

good luck.

gweedo


#8

In the report, they don’t state which brand is which. It would be EXTREMELY valuable information to know!
The only peel & stick I’ve found so far that has the ICBO ER-5433 rating is GAF Weatherwatch Leak Barrier
paragonroofs.com/system/leak_barrier.pdf, that may be the one that seals nails in the report.Anyone have an inside contact at NRCA?


#9

My guesses for the Ice and water shields that actually do as advertised are, Grace/Vycor, Certainteed winterguard sand and HT.
Gaf Stormguard seems to be pretty good stuff but the weatherwatch is junk.

If applied to a clean dry deck Grace simply will not come off, and it does seal around the nails.
Grace sticks to everything…
Winter guard can be chiseled off, it is best to leave it alone…
The others just don’t stick and are not true Ice & water shields, and they should be removed before installing the real thing.
A good way to test whether an Ice & water shield is any good, try to rip or tear it.
If it rips or tears by hand it is junk.


#10

Good point Axiom. A lot of so called I&W are junk and will not work compared to grace or wintergaurd.I agree


#11

i dont pay attention to the seal around the nail crap , cause the nail is going to rust away,
and its gonna leak.
the point , to me , is not to let the water get to the nail.

i dont like things that rip easily in my hand either.

gweedo


#12

Florida now requires that any reroof job have either a self-adhering underlayment OR the roof deck seams taped with a self-adhering flashing that meets ASTM D 1970.

To be Florida Building Code approved, any self-adhering underlayment membrane MUST pass ASTM D 1970 which includes a nail sealability test. This means that the membrane will seal around all roofing nails and prevent the roof from leaking should the main roof material get blown off in a storm.

As mentioned previously, even though the membranes are FBC approved, they don’t all perform to the same levels. Some are stickier than others.

The least expensive method of doing a reroof to meet the new code is to tape the deck seams and then put on a layer of felt. When you reroof, the felt is removed, the tape left in place, and a new layer of felt added.

If you use a full-roof self-adhered underlayment, then it is best left in place during a reroof. You can either roof directly over the old underlayment or put a layer of felt down then reroof.

Granule surface underlayments are the least expensive, but they often don’t seal well at the edges and overlaps which can allow leakage unless the main roof is installed immediately or unless those overlaps are sealed.

A film surface underlayment will normally seal to itself at the overlaps and can easily be patched with another layer of self-adhered membrane. Make sure there is a textured surface on the film so that you have some traction when working on the roof. Although the film surface underlayments are slightly more expensive, they are much easier to work with and provide a more watertight roofing surface. You can even put an additional layer of self-adhered underlayment on top of a film surface underlayment when doing a reroof.

There are also fabric surface underlayments used for metal and tile roofs. These perform similarly to the film surface products but offer better traction for stacking tiles and for installing with adhesive foam systems. Again, with a reroof, you can either put the new roof over this underlayment or add a new layer of self-adhere underlayment or felt if you feel it is needed.

As a disclaimer, I work for MFM Building Products and we manufacturer an entire line of self-adhering roofing products.

Tod Windsor
www.mfmbp.com


#13

Good info, Tod.

Gweedo, two things.

  1. PEEL. Not peal. Sorry, just bugs me.

  2. Provided it’s properly attached to any walls (i.e. joints) & the mounting system won’t be subject to standing water, I’d happily go with ANY metal roof on a 1/2 in 12 as you have exceptional low water resistance vs. a granulated surface.

Me, I would go with Tamko Metal & Tile, then put 1x4’s horizontally into the roof deck & then the metal over this. As a matter of fact, this is how I’m doing my “in process” feed & tack shed as well as my Mom’s chicken coop.


#14

well i would use a metal panel with a 2 or 3 inch
rib if im gonna put it on ant thing under a 2/12.
blowin rains can push water back up the roof and make it a couple inches deep on low slopes like that.
thats why you cant use 5vcrimp or 1.5 inch standing seam, cause the water will just build up and go thru the side laps.

and i like peal n steal.
thats my nickname for it.
the stuff works with no chance of burning anything.
so im down with it.

make no mistake though.
"they will never make another roofing product as
good as modified bitumen.’

gweedo


#15

Tod mentioned taping seams, BAD IDEA. I saw other local roofers do this. During certain times of the day, or with a wet roof, the taped seams show thru the shingle. Go PEEL and stick all the way.

With hourly labor it’s cheaper to skip tape, felt, simplex nails and instead just apply PEEL & stick.

James

Disclaimer: I do not sell PEEL & stick


#16

The seam tape really shouldn’t show through the shingles because there is a layer of felt on top of it.

But…

In their infinite wisdom, Florida mandated that the tape meet ASTM D 1970 which requires the tape to be at least 40 mils thick. Some manufacturers “tape” is even thicker, especially if it has a granular surface. Our original Roof Deck Tape was less than 30 mils thick - the goal being to make it as thin as possible but still meet performance standards. Florida’s requirement forced us to make the product thicker even though it didn’t need to be to work properly.

Gotta love bureaucrats and lawmakers.

Tod.


#17

yeah ,
ya see james i dont listen to a bunch of knuckleheads
who make up this crap to sell a product.
while our reputations go down the toilet.

i am from the town i roof in (that may change temperarely, seein theres no work here), and i have to see alot of the people that are protected by my roofs. alot of them are my freinds
so i do what works for me.

yeah , tapein the seams = knucklehead
i would peal n steal the entire roof.
nail it to.
im tellin ya i torn off a couple allready.
not stuck.

seein how i am a roofing god,
im thinkin maybe exspansion and contraction
pops it loose afer awhile.

i know it makes it a hell of alot easier to tear off.

ok i got time to tell you about one of the tear offs.
it was a historical mouartuary, “pratt & somethin” in jacksonville 07.
flat roof slight pitch, water build up in back, collasped roof.
they installed the p n s and it leaked after a year
and thats when i tour off the p n s and torched back.
the p n s just wasnt stuck.

i felt like gilligan when he and freinds realized
the glue pops loose after awhile.

been nailin the hell out of it ever since.

gweedo


#18

I am curious.
This roof deck tape, is a product like Grace/Vycor window flashing acceptable to tape the seams?
It would serve the purpose very well but I am pretty sure it is not 40 mils thick.

I recently did a very large job that used special osb.
This product requires that you tape the seams as described.
This osb had some sort of plastic surface on it and doesn’t require felt, I guess.
The seam tape was very similar to window flashing and appeared to stick well, but it leaked all over the place, before the roof was on.
This product still requires Ice & water shield in the appropriate areas, but no felt.
It had a very good walking surface, we could walk up the 12/12 with ease.

I haven’t really formed an opinion on this product yet.
The tape probably seals better after being baked by the sun for a while, but there was plenty of sunny weather when we did this job.


#19

Axiom,

The Grace Vycor Plus product would serve to tape deck seams but, no, it is not 40 mils thick so it wouldn’t meet code.

When we approached making a deck seam tape we originally wanted to use our WindowWrap product because it is thin and relatively inexpensive. The problem was that the top surface was slippery so it presented a hazard when working on a roof. Instead, we used the film from our MFM Wind & Water Seal because it had an aggressive texture on the top surface.

From what I can tell, the companies that are selling seam tapes for roof decks are either slitting their granular ice & water shield material or their film surface underlayment materials. The granular stuff, IMO, is inferior because it won’t seal to itself on the overlaps. The film surface material will seal to itself. Also, many of the granular membranes are fairly boardy and stiff so they don’t conform or stick very well.

Thanks for sharing your experience with the coated OSB panels. These seem to be a “new thing” on the market. I’ve only seen them used as exterior wall sheathing and a tape is applied to the seams. The Zip Panel tape I’ve seen is thin (~20 mils) and uses an acrylic-type adhesive that won’t seal around nails but the stuff sure is sticky. I wonder if this product is cost effective?

Tod.
www.mfmbp.com


#20

For my 1/2 on 12 roof, I was quoted 43lb base sheet with All Plan Modified Bitumen II. Does anyone know what this combiantion is? The roofer says it has a good track record for my application, and Peel & Stick does not have any “track”. Can’t find All Plan, and I have not received the written quote.