Question about quote price on 27 square pole barn roof


#1

Ok - just wondering a general “ballpark” estimate, here are the details:

Pole barn - 27 squares (single peak - easily walkable, but not flat)
drip edge
remove original single layer of ashpalt shingles (dumpster, pickup crew - everything)
replace with 30 year shingles

I have a quote from a reputable business in my area - think their price is a bit of a “premium”, but also believe I’m probably getting a premium service. Could one of you just give the info a quick once over and let me know what you think a price would be? Thanks!


#2

Could you post a picture to let me know what im giving you an idea of bidding on? I can give you a better idea.

Why dont you post what your estimate has so we can see if it is a good one


#3

I would charge about $5400.00

But then I’m always underbid in the last year or so. The Mexicans and the “fly by night” guys will do it for alot less.

BUT, just yesterday, I was on 2 different houses that were just reroofed in the last 4-5 weeks and I was doing a bunch of repairs on them…because the homeowner didn’t want the “roofer” back on the house.
One of the problems was the “roofer” shingled part of a flat roof.

Be careful.


#4

G-Tape - price you estimated was right around what was quoted - actually you are a bit lower so hey you won one hypothetical at least!

Seeing that you guys are both in the midwest area - opinions on Sherriff Goslin and their shingles? That was who quoted it so far - they were on time to show up to do the quote, professional - answered questions, and it seems like that style of shingle is pretty cool with it’s interlocking features. Opinions good or bad?

Thanks for the quick answers to the newbie questions!


#5

Never had the chance to look or work with them so i could not tell you. As far as price i would hover around 6000.00 for a 30 year dimensional shingle interlocks around 6500.00 Hope that helps.


#6

i would be at $6500 with 30 year GAF TIMBERLINES


#7

gweedo


#8

290 a square.


#9

FYI, in this market (Central Texas) I would be like a hog in mud if I was able to get $ 165.00 / square for a basic 30 year gable roof & one layer tearoff.

Y’all quoting $ 5K almost makes me want to move N… but then I’d have to leave Texas & that’s not an option (no, not wearing an ankle monitor).


#10

290 a square? Wow. I have gotten 4 estimates from roofers in my area and they were all about 135-140 a square. That is double the price here. First of all why is this so high? And second how are people able to afford it. I am redoing 55 squares worth, at 290 a square that would be 16,000 dollars. I would have to file bankruptcy. I am just amazed. I am sure that there is a reason for the difference.


#11

Please do not take offence to this but at 130 a square you have not paid for all the materials, labor and dump yet. Wow. how can the guys have insurance at that price? At that price i would not even get out of bed and start my car it would be a waste.


#12

Worker’s compensation insurance. We not only carry a policy, but also actually pay the premiums on wages.

We also hire only professional skilled roofers. We do not fit into the market full of illegal workers (that payt no taxes, but absorb the public resources) and “handyman” insurance policies that offer no real coverage in a roofing scenario.

The only reason these types do things this way is to lower selling price, whether or not it leaves the customer on the line if something happens is of no consequence to them. They just look for the quick buck.

Here’s how it works…
The “contractor” (and I use that term loosely) thnks he needs to lower the selling price to sign contracts, since he cannot build value for the long-term…

Materials cost the same as other contractors, so you cannot make the price reductions there.

Operating overhead is approximately the same per unit of roofing, so you cannot cut costs there. (insurance is another example that will be explained shortly)

So what are these “contractors” to do? Screw the customer over, what else? (Now remember, many customers are perfect fits for these “contractors” since longevity, skill of installers, and all the other intricacies that constitute a quality roofing investment are discarded for sake of low price) How do they do this?

The biggie is the labor. In my state, every employee MUST be covered by workers compensation insurance. There is no question about that. This means that since the WC market in Illinois is involuntary, the work comp pool is regulated. NOBODY can get WC cheaper than another by more than the experience rating. This leaves ALL roofing contractors to pay the same percentage of wages for work comp +/- a couple %. In Illinois, it sits at 39% of wages.

Well, to sell lower than the next guy, many “contractors” will illegally pay cash (showing no wages at the time of payroll audit) and pay the taxes on the monies paid to workers, if the CASH actually came out of a business checking account. It is cheaper to pay the taxes than to pay comp and payroll burdens.

Some “contractors” do not even want to do this, so they will pay by check, but still pay no payroll burdens by intentionally illegally mis-classifying employees as sub-contractors and issuing 10-99s at years end. They are still paying only the going labor wage rates, but passing the burden on to the employee to pay the employment taxes. To do this, the “sub-contractor/employee” must make big production to make a living. They still cannot pay the taxes on their men, because they do not charge enough to pay the worker’s wages, and payroll burdens on said wages.

This leaves the customer unknowingly liable for any worker injuries/deaths because they hired a “contractor” that does not pay workers Comp premiums, payroll taxes, and unemployment insurances.

Now everybody, of course, wants a high quality installation. This is natural, and expected when we invest our hard-earned money into our roofing system. High quality requires highly skilled roofers. How do obtain highly skilled workers? You have to train them. Training costs money, and lots of it. Problem is, when you dont even have enough money built into the pricing to pay payroll taxes, where will the money for employee training come from? Wages, that’s where. They will be forced to pay lower wages in order to keep constantly training personel because highly skilled workers do not work for low wages, and will eventually quit.

Well, how do you eliminate or reduce this high turnover rate? Higher wages. How ccan they pay higher wages when they do not even charge enough to pay payroll burdens? They can’t. They end up putting low skilled laborers on the rooftops intalling roofing systems that they are not qualified to install, so that the “contractors” can sell at a lower price.

It is a neverending cycle of low quality and scammiing of the public. It hurts us all. If you dont believe me, let me tell you this…The core of the residential side of my business has shifted from installation to repair of other “contractors’” shoddy work.

General libility insurance…If you ever see a construction company that reeally only does roofing, there is only one reason for it…to lower the selling price to sell more than the next guy in order to perpetuate the cycle.

Roofing is inherently dangerous. Insurance companies know this. They must account for and charge for this risk. Roofing companies (legitimate roofing companies) must pay this high risk insurance. This is usually 5-10 times the cost of “construction”, painting, handyman types of policies doing the same dollar volume of work. So what is a “contractor” to do to be able to sell lower than the rest off them in the cycle? Pull the old GL insurance scam.

The old GL insurance scam consists of construction, carpentry, painting, handyman, etc policies being bought in order to show an insurance certificate. This, however, affords no coverage to the customer when an accident happens, investigations are performed, and it is discovered that this “contractor” is really doing roofing. Roofing is not covered under these policies, and is specifically excluded, but the customer doesnt know. Theye most often look at nothing but what color the shingles are, and what’s the lowest price they can get them for.

So, in closing I will just say that most residential customers take on real risks when dealing with “contractors” that run their “roofing business” in this manner, knowingly or unknowiungly, not to mention running the risk of having to meet me to fix the problems said “contractors” left in their wake. :smiley:


#13

One more thing…

Now, knowing that the bulk of a legitimate roofing company’s cost is in skilled labor, I hope it makes sense to you to install the best, longest lasting materials feasible, so as to avoid having to incur the bulk of the repetitive cost of re-roofing again.

Yes, there are roofing systems that can last a lifetime, or multiple lifetimes, just ask Dennis. 8)


#14

And for the commercial customers…

…since you cannot ammortize a new roof on your buildings but for 39 years, does it make sense to install a 10, 20, or even a 30 year roof? It doesnt to me…doing things that way, you will always be behind in the depreciation, since re-roofing will have to occur again before the first re-roof is fully deducted.

Single plies are nice and cheap up front, but almost always cost more over the long term for this reason. Sustainability is now the key in any long-term roofing plan.


#15

Ranch Hand put a sight unseen quote earlier on one of my posts. It was about 139 a square. Ranch Hand, how do you get by with this price? According to Aaron everyone that is not that high is cutting corners in their business. Everyone in my area are about 140 or less. I believe them all to be reputable businesses.

The materials in my area for the Elk HD (all materials needed) are about 60 a square total. This makes 140 a square very feesible. That is a 130% margin over materials costs.


#16

[quote=“tdove”]
The materials in my area for the Elk HD (all materials needed) are about 60 a square total. This makes 140 a square very feesible. That is a 130% margin over materials costs.[/quote]

60 a square will get you shingles only, what about

  1. nails
  2. felt paper
  3. ice & water barrier
  4. vents
  5. staples
  6. drip edge
  7. pipe boots
  8. flashing
  9. caps
  10. cost of debris removal (dumpster or dump fees)
  11. cost of labor
  12. delivery fees
  13. permits
  14. insurance

did i miss anything guys?

we are not trying to bash you, but i cant touch a roof for less than $200 a square and thats just to break even. now add a profit margin (thats what we are in business for) and wear and tear on equipment & tools. how can any one in the US tear anything off for that price.

ranch hand might be lower than us because maybe he is his only employee, hence no workmens comp as the owner of the business is excluded from the policy. but his price still sounds too low.


#17

No, 45 a square for shingles only. The shingles are $15 a bundle and you use 3 bundles a square. I understand that that 60/square does not included insurance. I do know that all companies in my area will use illegal labor. That is the norm. Also, here in Texas that is not a bad thing. 90% of the manual labor workforce for building will be mexican labor. Maybe this is the difference. I know that 3 of the companies are quite large and have over 5 crews, and 2 have more than 3 locations in the state.

Maybe the materials are higher in your part of the country. Just cant imagine a roof costing that much. I bought this house for 120,000. 16,000 would be 13% of my total home purchase.


#18

Ok i want to play too pick me pick me

I guess people like to work for free down there or the consumers have rejected any prices that are high.

You couldnt pay me enough to sell down there. There is just no money in it down there. Reguardless i think at 130 a sqaure you will get an idiot. I know i dont work for free. Hell he made a mistake on the estimate. I guess he has adding problems. I dont know.


#19

I dont know how they make a profit doing it that cheap I start out at 200sq .Lowes and HD advertise roofs starting at 200sq and i am a working boss still i cant see how you could if you sub your work out at those prices


#20

Who, in their right mind, would run a business based on material cost, and the supposed markup thereof? That’s insanity. The numbers don’t lie. The scams are real. Caveat Emptor.