Question about ELK 20yr vs TAMKO 30yr / is this a game?


#1

I want to make sure I don’t make a mistake in our roof purchase. I have the below choices with the roofer that we have currently picked for our Ike repairs.

I have a large deductable that I am already paying out of my pocket so additional upgrade costs are going to be cutting into the pocket even further.

We currently have a 20 yr roof that is 5 years old. Insurance only covers this 20 yr type of replacement of course. We are also looking into upgrading to protect from future damage (we are north of Houston and only had 70 mph winds). The current damage is not super obvious, the shingles are not quite even anymore and 20% are not sealed and lift when a leaf blower is pointed at them from a distance. I was told this movement/twisting probably caused tearing of the underlay and hence the insurance says replace the roof. The house is ~2400 sqft+garage and the roof has a pitch from 8 to 10 in different locations, current estimats show about 50 squares.

So now on to my question. The roofer is offering 20 yr ELK. I can pay $1500 more for 30 yr ELK, or he states he has 50 yr tamko left over from an apt complex. He says he can charge me the same for the 50 year as the 30yr ELK. Is this a game or sound like it could be on the up and up?

The tamko and ELK color we are leaning toward are about the same when I looked at them.

Would I be crazy to go 20 year? Is 1500 a fair upgrade price for 30 year? Would I be crazy to not do the 50 yr upgrade in this situation?

Thanks in advance.


#2
  1. I have never seen a 20-year Elk shingle here in NC. That doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist, it just means I’ve never seen one here in the last 10 years.

  2. The upgrade to a 30-year dimensional is a little high ($1,500) once again for our market. However, it sounds reasonable for a 50-year upgrade.

  3. Although I guess it is POSSIBLE, I’m surprised how a 2400sf house yields 50 sq. The roof line must really be “chopped” and a lot of waste.

  4. STAY AWAY FROM A 20-YEAR 3-TAB SHINGLE.

My suggestion would be grab another estimate/proposal from a company who has a reputation of high quality work and a comparable high price. This will be a better barometer with which to measure the first estimate.

Hope this helps.
Matt


#3

Hi, Mike

Given your situation i would recommend a product called DECRA. it is a stone coated steel shingle. It has a WIND WARRANTY of over 100MPH. it is also virtually impact resistant from hail. it is gauranteed for 50 years. If the local codes allow it and if your roof is a good candidate it can be installed over top of your exisiting roof. Thus saving you money on not having to tear off the old roof. Be sure to hire someone who is familiar with DECRA. It is very different from asphalt shingles. You will need a roofer who is expercienced with the product. You can check out there website for more information on the product.


#4

i agree i have never seen a 20 year ELK… and 50 square must mean you have the craziest roof line ever for a 2400 square foot house. i woul dguess more like 36 square …even if its cut up like crazy!


#5

Correct.
In fact, if the house is 2400Sq ft 8-10/12 pitch plus a garage. I would say 50sq would be the minimum.

please do not do that. You will not be happy with the look of your home. 20 year three-tabs should never go on a steep roof. The “builder” will do it because you do not know any better and it is the cheapest thing he can put on and get away with it.

It will look good and you will love it.
But… if every roofer on the crew isn’t a perfectionist, it will be a piece of crap.
I do not like GAF/Elk. I do like the way they “look” though.

super crazy!
I would have told you to use tamko before GAF/ELK even if it was the 30 year shingle. That 50 year shingle is going to look awesome on your home.
Better looking shingle and last longer and a Higher wind warranty.

Did the roofer push you to like that color scheme that was left over from the apt complex?
Or were you leaning toward a color in that scheme anyway?
If you already needed a color in that scheme,
than i say it could be a blessing.

You can go to the Tamko website and see what the 50 year color in question would look like on a home.
I think you’ll be impressed.


#6

Ok, next associated question, the ELK/GAF 30 yr is weathered wood. What color is closest to that in the TAMKO? The roofer referenced it by the same name, but I don’t find that color name on the TAMKO site…


#7

Tamkos color is also called “weathered wood”

Go to the tamko site.
scroll down.

click on the “photo gallery” on the left handside of the opening page.

click “Heritage 30/50”

It will be the very last picture in the photo gallery.


#8

Looks like we will have to talk our guy into TAMKO Heritage 30 Rustic Slate. The browns in this should go good with our VERY light (white with hints of pink, blue, brown) brick. The strong gray in the Weathered Wood just is not doing it for us, it brought out too much of the blue/gray in the bricks…

Anyone tell me how to upload a picture, or do I have to host it somewhere and then link to it?

Google Street View


#9

1500 upgrade should only cost around 600 at best to go to a 30 year. And if he has 50 squares left over from an apartment complex this guy does not know how to measure a roof. Something does not sound right here. I could see 1500 for a 50 year roof but not for a 30 year roof upgrade. Thats my 2 cents


#10

I’m betting this roofer does not have 50sq of this shingle sitting in his garage.

I am betting that his roofing SUPPLIER has 50sq available of this shingle left over from an apt complex…


#11

For this roof, 1500 for an upgrade from 20year 3-tabs to 30 year architects sounds right on the money.
especially when you ALWAYS need to account for the possible forcing of upgraded cap shingles. Most “salesman” do not account for this and the roofing owner loses money. Soon to be put out of business from an inexperianced roofer salesman.

Normally, without this special deal from the supplier 3000 would be the amount needed for the difference between 20 year 3-tabs and 50 year architects for this roof. And yes, you positivly would have to use the very expensive upgraded cap shingles.

With the limited info given, it looks to me that
this roofer knows how to estimate a roof both in sq footage needed and in price…


#12

[quote=“roof-lover”]

I’m betting this roofer does not have 50sq of this shingle sitting in his garage.

I am betting that his roofing SUPPLIER has 50sq available of this shingle left over from an apt complex…[/quote]

I think the most shingles we ever had left from a job was like 18 sq. and thats because we did a whole project with the same shingles. And my house is a 6/12 2300 sq.ft. and was 32 sq. no way 50.


#13

I manage a company in that area and what he is charging for the upgrade is fair. That is about the differance in the price of shingles for 50 SQ. It does seem to be a bit high on the number of squares but with a garage maybe not. The insurance company should have provided you with the number of squares in the summary you got from them. I do almost all my work off that paperwork so if it matches it should be within a couple of squares. In the grand scheme of things who cares where the 50 yr comes from as long as it shows up in the original wrapper, its a heck of a deal.


#14

Its cheaper for me to do a 30 year than anything else. I guess

With shadow ridge and the difference should be around 600 the house is not 50 squares im betting.


#15

Mike,

I don’t know if you’ve done this project yet or not but since a lot of the insurance money in Houston is still coming in, and mortgage companies are slowing things down considerably, I thought you might still be working on your decision. So…
*
We currently have a 20 yr roof that is 5 years old. Insurance only covers this 20 yr type of replacement of course. We are also looking into upgrading to protect from future damage *

You should try really hard to work out the upgrade. A laminated shingle is not impervious to wind damage, but it is far more resistant than a strip shingle like you have now. On a steep roof, the difference is not as pronounced, but there is a difference nonetheless. You said you have a high deductible - the laminated roof may well save you a roof replacement in the next storm, and therefore save you another deductible.

The house is ~2400 sqft+garage and the roof has a pitch from 8 to 10 in different locations, current estimats show about 50 squares. *

The people who have been doubting the accuracy of this measurement should themselves be doubted.

First, I trust that you have compared the roofers’ measurements and the adjuster’s measurements, and would comment if they were substantially different.

Second, for the benefit of the naysayers, 2400 (living space) plus 450-700 for garage, plus 10% for porches, entries, overhangs and double-overhangs, plus 20% for 8:12 pitch factor or 30% for 10:12, plus 15% ridge/starter/waste (will be more if roof is badly “cut up”), means:

best case = 42 1/3 sq
worst case = 51 sq

Unless you have tiny 6" overhangs, no porches or covered entries, and a 1-car garage, your numbers look reasonable.

*So now on to my question. The roofer is offering 20 yr ELK. I can pay $1500 more for 30 yr ELK, or he states he has 50 yr tamko left over from an apt complex. He says he can charge me the same for the 50 year as the 30yr ELK. Is this a game or sound like it could be on the up and up? *

$1500 more for 50 squares is $30/square additional for the upgrade. In the Houston area, as well as Dallas, the cost difference to the roofer currently is $20-$25/square. It sounds like your roofer is just adding in normal margin as any businessman would for his product.

As for the leftover 50’s, it’s a great deal if they are in the original wrappers. First-run and end-run shingles are sold off at very low prices, without warranties. Of course, if you don’t have at least FHA-minimum attic venting (and most roofs don’t even come close), then you won’t have a warranty anyway. Make sure you don’t end up in this trap.

The 50 squares of 50-yr could be for many reasons, but the most likely reason is that he did a job where the insurance adjuster over-measured, bought all the material, and chose not to return the leftovers because he was getting paid for it. I’ve done a few post-job supplements correcting an adjuster’s high measurements or high counts (vents, etc.). They don’t want to process those supps because documenting that they came in high does not sit well with the insurance company. So my guess is he just decided to sit on it.

Bottom line - no, it’s not a game.

Would I be crazy to go 20 year? Is 1500 a fair upgrade price for 30 year? Would I be crazy to not do the 50 yr upgrade in this situation? *

In my opinion, Yes, Yes, and Yes.

Furthermore, if you can don’t already have a radiant barrier inside the attic or radiant barrier decking, then look into Polaralum underlayment instead of felt. It’s a little over twice the price of #30 felt (which you should use on a steep roof, for safety), but this is definitely the time to do it. I don’t believe Tamko has come out with a statement on it, but Owens Corning has officially stated that it does not void their warranties. Atlas verbally told me the same. You’re looking at $1000-$1500 more, but this is by far the best time to do it.

Thanks in advance.*

You’re welcome, although I suspect I may be too late.


#16

Excellent response, welcome to the site Neville.


#17

I also work with a company local to houston and 1500 would be a pretty fair price for the upgrade. Shingles are definately more expensive in houston than most other areas right now.

If he is willing to give you a 50yr shingle for the same price who cares how he got the shingles… What neville said about the insurance company measurements being high is probably the most likely scenario.

If you would like for someone to come out and give you a bid to compare with your current one I would be more than happy to do so. PM me if you have any questions or would be interested in a second opinion.


#18

Thanks for all the help. We decided to go with a 30 year in a Tamko Natural Timber. It looks great. Wish I would have read about the radiant barrier about 2 weeks ago though :slight_smile:

As for radiant barrier, I still plan to do this in some fashion. I’m thinking 4X8 insulation foam with radiant foil on it. I could probably do this myself with a helper and some extendable poles…

Mike


#19

You did a very thorough and proper analysis of the misquoted scenario from most other contractors points of view.

That was the first thought that came to my mind, was the garage is not included in the house “Liveable” square footage.

Many home owners call in for an estimate and immediately inform me they already know the square footage of their home, but rarely do they account for all of the items you listed.

Welcome to this forum. It seems like you now how to properly estimate.

Also, Kev, don’t you have any markup on material costs? If I have to spend an extra $600.00 for an upgraded material, their has to be an accounting for the OH & P.

The price seemed in line with proper calculations for the upgrade.

Definitely choose the 50 year Tamko, but make sure that is what you are getting, plus the specialty Hip and ridge Cap accessories.

Ed

[quote=“neville”]Mike,

I don’t know if you’ve done this project yet or not but since a lot of the insurance money in Houston is still coming in, and mortgage companies are slowing things down considerably, I thought you might still be working on your decision. So…
*
We currently have a 20 yr roof that is 5 years old. Insurance only covers this 20 yr type of replacement of course. We are also looking into upgrading to protect from future damage *

You should try really hard to work out the upgrade. A laminated shingle is not impervious to wind damage, but it is far more resistant than a strip shingle like you have now. On a steep roof, the difference is not as pronounced, but there is a difference nonetheless. You said you have a high deductible - the laminated roof may well save you a roof replacement in the next storm, and therefore save you another deductible.

The house is ~2400 sqft+garage and the roof has a pitch from 8 to 10 in different locations, current estimats show about 50 squares. *

The people who have been doubting the accuracy of this measurement should themselves be doubted.

First, I trust that you have compared the roofers’ measurements and the adjuster’s measurements, and would comment if they were substantially different.

Second, for the benefit of the naysayers, 2400 (living space) plus 450-700 for garage, plus 10% for porches, entries, overhangs and double-overhangs, plus 20% for 8:12 pitch factor or 30% for 10:12, plus 15% ridge/starter/waste (will be more if roof is badly “cut up”), means:

best case = 42 1/3 sq
worst case = 51 sq

Unless you have tiny 6" overhangs, no porches or covered entries, and a 1-car garage, your numbers look reasonable.

*So now on to my question. The roofer is offering 20 yr ELK. I can pay $1500 more for 30 yr ELK, or he states he has 50 yr tamko left over from an apt complex. He says he can charge me the same for the 50 year as the 30yr ELK. Is this a game or sound like it could be on the up and up? *

$1500 more for 50 squares is $30/square additional for the upgrade. In the Houston area, as well as Dallas, the cost difference to the roofer currently is $20-$25/square. It sounds like your roofer is just adding in normal margin as any businessman would for his product.

As for the leftover 50’s, it’s a great deal if they are in the original wrappers. First-run and end-run shingles are sold off at very low prices, without warranties. Of course, if you don’t have at least FHA-minimum attic venting (and most roofs don’t even come close), then you won’t have a warranty anyway. Make sure you don’t end up in this trap.

The 50 squares of 50-yr could be for many reasons, but the most likely reason is that he did a job where the insurance adjuster over-measured, bought all the material, and chose not to return the leftovers because he was getting paid for it. I’ve done a few post-job supplements correcting an adjuster’s high measurements or high counts (vents, etc.). They don’t want to process those supps because documenting that they came in high does not sit well with the insurance company. So my guess is he just decided to sit on it.

Bottom line - no, it’s not a game.

Would I be crazy to go 20 year? Is 1500 a fair upgrade price for 30 year? Would I be crazy to not do the 50 yr upgrade in this situation? *

In my opinion, Yes, Yes, and Yes.

Furthermore, if you can don’t already have a radiant barrier inside the attic or radiant barrier decking, then look into Polaralum underlayment instead of felt. It’s a little over twice the price of #30 felt (which you should use on a steep roof, for safety), but this is definitely the time to do it. I don’t believe Tamko has come out with a statement on it, but Owens Corning has officially stated that it does not void their warranties. Atlas verbally told me the same. You’re looking at $1000-$1500 more, but this is by far the best time to do it.

Thanks in advance.*

You’re welcome, although I suspect I may be too late.[/quote]


#20

[quote=“ed the roofer”]You did a very thorough and proper analysis of the misquoted scenario from most other contractors points of view.

That was the first thought that came to my mind, was the garage is not included in the house “Liveable” square footage.

Many home owners call in for an estimate and immediately inform me they already know the square footage of their home, but rarely do they account for all of the items you listed.

Welcome to this forum. It seems like you now how to properly estimate.

Also, Kev, don’t you have any markup on material costs? If I have to spend an extra $600.00 for an upgraded material, their has to be an accounting for the OH & P.

The price seemed in line with proper calculations for the upgrade.

Definitely choose the 50 year Tamko, but make sure that is what you are getting, plus the specialty Hip and ridge Cap accessories.

Ed
[/quote]

quoted for truth, and accuracy!!

i never understand why someone would give a %600 upgrade to a customer, when the shingles COST them $600 more. what about the markup on that $600 investment?

the first thing i ask when i get the “my house is 2400 sq feet, how much will the roof cost” question, is “is your roof completely flat?”

of course, it never is.

good choice on the tamko 30yr.