"Over Exposed"


#1

Hello, I had a freind install a new roof about 3 years ago, removed the cedar shake, put down plywood, tar paper etc. It has always leaked. He knows now one mistake he made was at the “channels” (since I dont’ know the proper term) where two different angles come toghether. They are supposed to be interweaved I guess and were not.

Ihave had two roofing contractors come out this week to inspect and estimate for repair. Both have told me almost exact same thing, so I guess its true. Just wanted a little more verification, info if I may, from any experts out there.

They both said in addition to the interweaving that a huge mistake he made was over exposed the shingles. The both said 5-5/8" is the max it should be and he has 6" and more. Because I used sort of cheap compostion roofing, the guy yesterday told me without question that this will start to cause major problems in x amount of years, maybe as few as 2 or 3 more.

It appears I need to re-roof. The channels could be fixed, but if this overexposed is a major a screwup as they both seemed to think, that would be throwing good money after bad if I repaired the interweaving. Do you guys concur that this over exposed is very serious and will cause big time problems in x amount of years. I plan to live here the rest of my life, and even if I wanted to sell, the guy yesterday told me the roof would never pass inspection, though they don’t always go up there and inspect the roof.

Weather might be pertinent to advice, I live in Fairfield, CA, halfway between SF and Sacramento, lots of rain in winter, sometimes blistering heat in summer. July August alwasy bring some 100 degree and more, but otherwise often in the 80s and 90s. Winter 30s or 40s overnight, maybe 50s to 60s in daytime. And some very signifciant rain from Dec thru March.

Anyway, I guess the crux is, due to this over exposed, is refoofing the best way to go, or is it overkill? THanks for any info and light you can shed on this.
Joe


#2

first and formost try to post some pics so you get acurate advice and every one knows what you are talking about. if you are talking about “valleys” then i would def. recommend not weaving them. as this will be the first spot to give out in a few years and this practice usually voids any manufacture warranty. your valleys should be a closed cut. i dont know of any legit roofers in my area that do weaved valleys. overexposure would probably lead to blow offs at some point i would think. i guess it depends if you have 3 tab shingles or architectural. please try to post some pics so we can help you better.


#3

Here are some pics
webwholesaler.net/roof.htm
Ok, thanks for your reply. I appreciate it. I am very surprised abut what you say about the weaving and wonder if I just misunderstood this, as both of these guys were long time roofing contractors in the area. For all I know maybe my friedn weaved and wasn’t supposed to!

One did say that the metal channels my friend used can be ok, but that he crimped them too tightly, I guess they are a W shape and he crimiped the channels so that water cannot flow down them.

In any event, I have posted 3 pics on one of my servers. Scroll down to see all 3. I hope they are good enuf. I cannot get on a roof, too old and unagile etc. Thanks!
webwholesaler.net/roof.htm


#4

I can’t tell from the pictures if your exposure is ok or not. If you have exposed nails, then you definately have a problem. If not, you may be ok. However, you will have a higher risk of blowoffs if your exposure is too large.

As for the valleys, you need to tear them out and start over. What is under the shingles in the valley? You need valley metal and/or ice and water shield under the shingles. I suspect you have neither. Then, you should install a “closed-cut” valley. A woven valley is allowed with 3-tab shingles by some manufactures specs, but a closed-cut valley is, in my experience, far less likely to leak.

I guess you already know to have a roofing contractor do the work.


#5

Double post. Sorry.


#6

[quote=“cshomes”]I can’t tell from the pictures if your exposure is ok or not. If you have exposed nails, then you definately have a problem. If not, you may be ok. However, you will have a higher risk of blowoffs if your exposure is too large.

As for the valleys, you need to tear them out and start over. What is under the shingles in the valley? You need valley metal and/or ice and water shield under the shingles. I suspect you have neither. Then, you should install a “closed-cut” valley. A woven valley is allowed with 3-tab shingles by some manufactures specs, but a closed-cut valley is, in my experience, far less likely to leak.

I guess you already know to have a roofing contractor do the work.[/quote]

I most definitley know now to have a pro do it. My friend actually is top notch in many areas, carpentry, plumbing, metal work etc, very highly skilled and a real perfectionist, but obviously this is the one chink in his armor. From what I know, what is between these valleys is as I said, a W shaped metal channel that the contractor yesteday told me my firend crimped to tight. I don’t know how he could see anything with all that good on top of it, but I guess he saw some areas. Is what I have “3 tab shingles”? I have no idea what that means.

Both contractors proposed the best fix overall is a new roof over this one, using 30 year much better quality material and guaranteeing it for 10 years.

The original roof btw, may lend some info to it, it was cedar shake and had to be removed totally, then plywood put down, tar paper and what not. I paid little attention as I cannot go up there, and know my friend usually does a top notch job.

This, I am sure, was due to lack of knowledge, not taking shortcut willingly or shoddy workmanship. He is not capable of doing either willingly. I have watched him for years doing projects for me. So he bit off more than he can chew, and I guess from reading here, its not unusal. Seems few amatuers have any luck with roofing jobs!


#7

I have better pics now. The back of the house has a low part so I got my step ladder and got some good from the top pics etc. You can also see what he did between the channels.
webwholesaler.net/roof2.htm


#8

If he had used G-Tape in the first place…we wouldn’t be having this conversation. :wink:


#9

the shingles are overexposed…prone to blow offs. but you might be alright for awhile. I would def. never weave a valley because it creates a little pocket of air under the shignles in the valley that will trap heat & curl up much faster than the rest of your roof. if you roof over the existing roof, you will probably need to tear out the valleys anyway. you would have a roof life expectancy of 15-18 years that way (if done right). you should always tear off first anyway. that will give you a roof life of 27-30 years. if the have to tear out the valleys anyway…might as well do it right and tear off the whole thing.


#10

get a new roof.
it does look like crap.
sorry freind.
gweedo


#11

[quote=“gweedo”]get a new roof.
it does look like crap.
sorry freind.
gweedo[/quote]

chcukle, yes I 'm afraid I agree. Today was the first and best look I really had at it, getting up on the ladder. I know nothing about it, but it just doens’t look professiaonl to me, and the stains on my ceiling in 3 or 4 places seem to bear that out. Not to mention the water dripping on my furnace, IF I didn’t have that big rubber pad defelcting it away. :frowning:


#12

Well my best advise that i can give you is simple. Rather than going over the existing mess you have, i would tear it all off and start from scratch. No offence to your friend but if that mistake was made there might be many more under the roof that are not seen. Secondly going over the roof will only give you about half the life of the shingles. You will also lose the benifits of proper protection in case of problems that might later arise. With the over exposure it will in time become a problem.

Rarely do i see a valley in that bad of condition. Repair in my eyes is out of the question due to the over exposure and side to side problems with the valley.

But going over any roof no matter whats wrong with it in my eyes is just a waste of money.


#13

A weaved valley is one of the most common ways of doing a valley in California when using shingles in the 30 to 40 year range. Above this a W-valley with an open cut is generally used as it is hard to get the heavier shingles to lay tight when they are woven.

From the pictures it appears there are 2 main issues with your valley. With the amount of rust showing it appears the old valley metal was resued. This means you will have old nail holes in it in areas along the edges. It also appears from the bump in the picture that he may of not even removed the valley to install the plywood. It looks like the plywood was just butted against or or slid under the edge.

The other issues is the shingles are cut tight against the W portion (center raised area) of the valley metal. There should have been approximately 2 inch sap between the center of the valley and the edge of the shingles. By butting tight against the center it slows the water run off. Also when there is not a gap for water to travel down it can cause the water to wick back under the shingles to the point that it can get under the valley metal. Going back again to what I mentioned about the old valley metal earlier there may not be any felt under it.

As far as the over expose shingles it is hard to tell accuratley from the pictures but as a general rule overexposed shingles can cause a leak. If the shingles are over exposed it can make the top edge of the lower shingle to be exposed at the side butt joint of the next course allowing water to get under the shingles. If you have a good underlayment this will not be an immediate leak. However in a few years because most of the underlayments are organic they will diteriorate from the moisture and leaks will develop. This is also an issue when installing shingles on a lower pitch roof. Unless the only area of the roof that is over exposed there is no way to do a good or cost effective repair. Fixing the exposure on one course will just create a problem with the next course.

Your best bet is to remove the existing roof and valley metal. Inspect and renail and repair the plywood as neccessary (the bulk of it should be okay) and install a new shingle roof.

One of the most important thing to remember about a shingle roof is they keep out water by the fact it runs down hill at a certain speed. Anything that obstructs or slows the water down can result in a leak.