No Metal Flashing in Open Valley?


#1

Hi guys,

I had our roof re-done by a GAF certified Master Elite roofer recommended by our neighbor back in 2013.
The roof is leaking now and my neighbor who has exactly the same problem still prefers to go seek for help from the original roofer.
However, the original roofer was kind of slow due to the them busy so I seeked for other help.

This is the video inspection report I received: https://youtu.be/BRzcyIet15o
And the prfessional opinion that I got was that there was that the damage was due to the animals (raccoons perhaps?) clawing through the rubber membrane.
However, the original roofer should have installed the metal flashing in the valley as indicated in the contract.

I told the neighbor the issue and he contacted the roofer, and the response that my neighbor got was:

"When a roof area is less than 3/12 pitch like this specific valley, which is called “dead valley”, we need to use a different membrane typical for low slopes, like an epdm membrane. This falls into our labor warranty and not GAF’s.

My questions are:

+ Is the original roofer telling the truth?
+ What about the Eaves, skylights…etc?
+ For those who are familiar with GAF’s Golden Pledge Warranty, are we still qualified for it given the installation the oringal roofer did in 2013?
+ What are my options to give the valley the protection it needs from the animals?

Thanks in advance


#2

Your original roofer is correct that in saying that is a “dead valley” and requires low slope roofing material (not valley metal and ice and water shield). I didn’t have time to watch the whole video but from what I see I am not a fan of the person who made it trying to publicly shame the roofer.

It does look like the original install was done to industry standards but just so happened that you had an unusual case where something came along and decided to tear things up.

I have no idea how the “Golden Pledge” covers areas such as dead valleys, honestly I think that whole warranty is a big scam. Let your roofer handle the issue, the only thing they did wrong so far is not addressing your issue in a timely manor.


#3

Thank you for your reply, IslandRoofing, I really appreciate it.

So in your professional opinion:

  • Is there any better way of protecting that area from being torn up? As you can see, both mine & neighbor’s got torn up by some animal at the same identical location. I am worried if I just pay the original roofer $750 / side to replace it with the same rubber material, it will just be a matter of time before I have to pay again. (the original roof (house built in 1995) served us well until 2013. But we’re already experiencing problem already within 4 years. )

  • Is it normal that No leak barrier (even if it’s not Gaf’s weather watch) is installed along the eaves, skylight? (at around the 9 mins 26seconds mark of the video)

I greatly appreciate your help.


#4

I have never encountered animals tearing up roofs, sorry to say I really don’t have any advice for you there. Perhaps contact some type of animal control and ask them for recommendations.

Different areas have different requirements for leak barrier, so its hard to say what’s “normal” in your area. Best bet is to contact your local building inspector (if your area has one). The GAF golden pledge very well may require it around the eves and skylights but I already told you my opinion of that whole warranty. Modern roofers make act like you are some kind of hack for not using leak barriers (the duct tape of the roofing industry) at every spot possible, but they seem to forget that people were making leak free roofs for 100s of years before they ever existed.


#5

Thank you again for your reply.

I truly appreciate your help and your opinion. I will take your suggestion on contact animal control into consideration.

As for the Golden Pledge Warranty from GAF, I guess as regular consumer who knows NOTHING, I probably would not have know the difference between each manufacturer’s warranty or what’s covered, what’s not, or the requirement…etc.

And just like what you said, maybe the whole MANUFACTURER WARRANTY could be a scam.
But I guess my original roofer didn’t make me feel any better by stating in the video (1:39) saying

“Roof being built to the strict GAF GOLDEN PLEDGE warranty guideline” and said the warranty would be included WHEN that’s not the case.

It makes me feel like I got scammed TWICE :frowning:

Thanks for your valuable input though.


#6

If you have a contract that states word for word what is going to be installed then by all means hold them to it. If the contractor has not provided you with the agreed upon roof assembly then they are in breach. If they had issue’s with the contracts specification they should have mentioned those issue’s before agreeing and signing. Sounds to me like they are trying to increase their profit by giving you less.


#7

Yeah the “golden pledge” salesmen always tell the customer everything they wanna hear. “Your roof (done with material designed to last 20-30 years) will last FOREVER! And if it doesn’t GAF will happily pick up the bill for replacement (yeah right).”


#8

LOL. I gotta ask Ethan - just curious, how much was the inspection ?
Must have cost you a pretty penny as that inspector/inspection had a full video production shoot and EDIT onsite.


#9

IslandRoofing -

FWIW, I had one GAF roofer come out. This guy was one SLICK talking sales guy. I mean sl1cK as sn0t slick. He spent 1 hr, I kid you not on his sales pitch. One Hr, showing stuff on his ipad, X, Y, Z pitch. I could not get him out of my house any faster. I’ve never had any contractor give me a full blown 1 hr sale speech !


#10

Im assuming you didn’t notice the lack of ice guard when you took the original in progress pictures, is that correct?
A few questions about the video; Who is that with gloves on? What type of firm made the video?


#11

I finally watched the whole video, and I smell a rat. And by rat I mean another competing “factory certified master elite” roofer.


#12

If he represented himself in that manner
"Golden pledge"
And clearly spelled out what he was going to do and didnt do it…
Than he deserves every bit of wrath you give him

Though i think it is absolutely ridiculous to "ice and water"
ANY rake or ridge!!! And most valleys for that matter.
But if that is what GAF golden pledge tells their perspective customers that is what they are going to do… well???

That only looks like a 4/12 to me.
I could be wrong.
If i am correct, i would have ice&water shield the bottom row regardless of what anybodys warranty said.
Two rows if i was in a snowy cold climate.

You dont put W flashing( open style)in a dead valley.
It isnt wide enough.
You have to use a flat roofing material
And in my opinion EPDM is not the proper material to use in that application.
I dont believe the racoon story.
Material is just too thin and i believe it shrunk, tore and failed.
Material should have been Modified bitumen cap sheet
Along with self-adhered underlayment.

I do have to say that They did use the most expensive synthetic underlayment you can buy,
Which is double the price of what most roofers are using.

Now I would give you my opinion of roofers using synthetic underlayment on this low of a slope…
But i think i would hurt most of the roofers feelings in here.


#13

In my opinion, making and sharing the video puts you at legal risk for a defamation lawsuit, with that being said, the installers did the right thing by installing flat roofing in that valley area, maybe not epdm, bitumen or even fabricated metal which would have been my chojce. I have seen where raccoons and woodpeckers have torn into roofs. That is not the roofers fault or liability in any way, shape or form. Had i installed the roof and you called about a leak i wouldve been out asap to inspect it, document it, and had i thought it was not my fault had the county building department reassure myself and you. Had you made a video like this about me and i wasnt at fault i can assure you that i would take legal remedies to pursue damage it would cause my company financially. I dont mean to sound like a jerk i promise you, as it wouldnt have gotten to this point. As far as ice and water shield i only install it in the valleys unless its less than a 4/12 pitch, but our county doesnt require it and i dont sell these bogus “extra” warranties. I feel its just a way to cash cow a customer with extra material and labor


#14

Thanks for everyone’s input ad reminders.

I just want to clarify few things.

  1. I didn’t make the video.

  2. I came here to seek advice BASED on the video provided to me:

    a) Damaged Valley area:
    Any input/suggestions for a better installation to avoid future damages caused by animals.

    b) Eligibility of the GAF Warranty
    As far as I am concerned, I was sold the GAF warranty, and I paid for it. The original roofer didn’t have to sell Golden Pledge warranty/I didn’t have to pay for it. But if I paid for it, I expected the installation to be done per GAF’s requrement. I APPRECIATE this video that was provided to me because it pointed this out for me. (I have zero knowledge on roofing)

Because of the fact that original roofer didn’t do the instruction PER GAF’S instruction/requirement, I am not sure if I can trust any new input from them. Hence I am here seeking for everyone’s opinion.

As for Nmitts’s reminder of the “defamation lawsuit”, I don’t see how that would apply to me, or EVEN the video for that matter, because

  1. The video is only pointing out facts (no metal flashing in valley / no gaf leak barrier when the contract stated they would be installed)
  2. No leak barrier along the valleys / Eaves / skylights…etc when the golden pledge warranty clearly stated they’d have to be installed.

They are simply facts.

If anything, I PROBABLY should have the right to sue.
I was provided this after posting the question here, and


In point #5, it clearly states roofer MUST install the GAF LEAK BARRIER when they DID NOT.
It’s a pretty unforunte turn of event.

I suspect that the roofer simply “check-marked” the Weather Watch when applying the warranty package for us, which we received few weeks after the job was done. The reason is because I see in my warranty package that the weather watch was installed / just like how they stated in the contract WHEN IN FACT they DID NOT INSTALLED it.

((Moreover, now that I look at the Warranty Application Form, at the bottom, it requires owner to sign to approve the installation being correct. However, I don’t recall signing anything!..))

Again, I appreciate everyone’s input, thanks :slight_smile:


#15

Did a GAF rep ever come out to check out your roof after the install? I was under the impression that for Golden Pledge jobs a rep would come out after the install and sign off that the job was done to spec.


#16

That’s what I thought too.

  1. I remember my roofer telling us someone from GAF would come over to check.
  2. After they finished the roof, someone from GAF did come over to inspect the roof. I do not even recall the person ringing our doorbell (don’t know if they rang neighbor’s doorbell considering it’s a duplex);
  3. I don’t recall the GAF inspector asking us to sign anything
  4. Few weeks later, we got our warranty “certificate” in the mail.

The interesting thing is, few days ago, when I called up GAF directly to inquire about whether “weather watch was REQUIRED” or not in order to be eligible for the golen pledge warranty (that was before I got the PDF of the application form in the previous post), just as I was telling them about the whole story and how our roofer told us that someone from GAF would come over to inspect, they were like “how long ago was it? because we stopped sending out inspector after certain point~”

Anyway, who knows, maybe GAF inspector was slacking off too? We got scammed by GAF inspector as well? I don’t know.

But one thing I almost feel certain of is that our roofer sold & charged us for the warranty that they promised (nothing to do with the damaged area) , and they probaby submitted the application saying they did install the weather watch in valley, skylights…etc when they didn’t :frowning:

It’s not like I WANTED Golden Pledge Warranty (wouldn’t have known about it)…they SOLD US the package… we paid… but doesn’t seem like it was ever delivered …

although it IS weird:

  1. how the GAF inspector passed it…
  2. when i never signed it off…

sigh :frowning:


#17

So the rep came out to do a “rigerous” inspection and missed something super easy to check. Another one of the many reasons their super duper warranty is b.s. I feel that makes them just as responsible as the person who didn’t install leak barrier in your valley.


#18

You probably would have a case if you decided to file a lawsuit over this but i just don’t think its worth it. What do you get if you win (other than laywer fees)? A new roof with a fancy golden pledge sticker? You already saw how easy it is for the manufacturer to weasel out of any future issues. If its not leak barriers there will always be another reason (usually nailing pattern) to deny responsibility.


#19

If it were me I would just replace the dead valley and move on. I would recomend using a product called modified bitumen (roofers will know the product) as its more durable than what is currently installed. I wouldn’t hire the original guy (he was deceptive with the golden pledge install) or the guy who made the video.


#20

I have had projects where the roof was damaged by a raccoon or possum and the home owner’s insurance policy covered it. In my opinion no contractor or manufacturer will cover a roof that is destroyed by an animal. Half the time the manufacturer will not warranty the shingles if they think they were not installed to manufacturer specifications. I mean, what fault is it of the roofing company or manufacturer that a force of nature did damage to the roof?