Need advice "how to redo valley" Pictures added


#1

Question Help with fixing leak
Need some advice. one year ago I worked on a roof leak. Main roof is a 12/12 that comes down half way on one side and forms a wall. Looks like the side of a dormer window. Roof that connects into that is a hip roof. The roof was leaking right on the corner of the wall. The framers did not bring the valley to the corner but stopped 5 inches up so all the water runs straight into the wall. We removed all siding from that wall and removed the shingles. Covered the wall with fire and ice, extending that out over the roof, and re did flashing, built a solid piece of flashing (copper) to turn the corner of the wall. No more leaks until the gutter man installed a gutter and nailed what he called a rain diverted (piece of metal he made on the roof to move the water from the valley to the corner. Seems like he might have compromised the flashing, as this spot is leaking again. Owner would like to re do that valley and this is not something I would be able to do. Another contractor suggested a cricket, another sleepers??? I don’t know enough to help them decide what to do and hope you experts could give advice.
Can a valley be moved to right place, or water be diverted by rebuilding that part of the roof? May be I can get pictures.
Thanks for any tips or advice you may give. :mrgreen:


#2

Pictures would definitely help.

But, as prbably the simplest solution, (besides removing the sheet metal diverter the gutter guy installed), would possibly be to install a sheet metal valley liner in the valley and extend it out far enough past the bottom of the valley to shed the water farther away.

There are alot more ideas, but I have to get going for a weekend trip. I will check back on Monday, but there are some good guys here with sound advice.

Ranch and GTP cirst come to mind, but there are many others too.

Ed


#3

If you send me a few pics i can give you a way to do it. First off the gutter guy should pay for the repair if it leaked right after the gutter guy installed his wisdom. If you send or post a pic i will let you know what you should do. Have a great one.


#4

Thank you Ed and QTP, I will get pictures as soon as I can. It is raining and blowing here to day so I will wait until the weather clears. The owner had a man work on it after the gutter man did his thing (another botched job). He did not remove this so called rain deverter put put it under the siding and fixed the nail hole in the copper. I feel all the siding should come off to see what is there now unless the roof can be done somehow. The valley is made of copper. Thank you both. We haven’t been able to locate a roofer, framer who acts like they know their job and that is why I came online. This lady deserves a break. :stuck_out_tongue:


#5

Hi,

Where are you located.

Take off the diverter. Solder the nail holes.

If a diverter is actually needed Solder it in place instead of nailing it.


#6

Check to see if the water is entering at the siding and then running down behind the step flashings. The I&W should have been iinstalled OVER the step flashings, so any water that gets in the siding can flow back onto the roof.


#7

Hi Lefty & G Tape. I am located on the Outer Banks of NC. We can"t tell if it is running down the siding. Under the attic we can"t see any water marks, only on the plywood at the corner. I will check the things you suggested. Hopefully after the pictures you can tell us how to re build the valley. It might not even be the valley but it is a load of water pouring down that wall.


#8

I’m agreeing that photos are really going to do the best for us.

Once you take the pics, open them in PaintBrush (or @ least one of them) & use the various tools to show us the area(s) you think are leaking. Then save the pic as a NEW photo.

Upload this NEW photo to a post here or to Photobucket & then link to the photo(s).

PS: Q Tip… I like that. LoLz


#9

I am going to try and take photos tomorrow but until then here is a picture of the plans. The roof valley marked is 6 inches up the wall and not on the corner as the plans show. The water comes (we think)right on the corner, where the wall turns. Since this area has been worked numerous times may be reguilding it would work, IF that is even an option. Hope you exsperts can figure some thing out.http://www.roofing.com/images/topics/5928/img_1194826234.jpg


#10

Looks to me like that’s a dead valley carrying a lot of water from two fairly steep sections.

I would have wanted the valley going up the wall by about 1-1/2 or 2 feet @ least… just to be on the safe side, anyhow.

A lot of siding will need to come up & be reset to make it right & due to the location, corner trim as well.

Are y’all only doing a peel & stick type barrie, or is there any metal behind this?


#11

We have removed the siding and trim. We put the water and ice on the wall covered that with tar paper and then did the step flashing. We built a piece of flashing out of copper and brought it around the corner. It did not leak any more until the gutterman put this home made rain deverter on the roof and nailed it into the flashing. We had someone redo that. He said he repaired the hole in the flashing. We can take it all off again and look but since the valley was framed wrong if it could be rebuilt we would do that. I will try and put up actual pictures tomorrow. Thanks for your advice. How would we rebuild it.


#12

fix-it,

Looks like even if you rebuild the valley area you will still have a pocket and valley next to the wall.
I suggest pulling the existing valley and shingles for about 4-6 feet back, and installing a single monolithic roofing material.
I would do it in copper. But any good installation of pvc/rubber/modified should work.


#13

Just for clarification’s sake, this is what you have, right?


#14

That is pretty much the case. If the weather is good tomorrow I will get actual pictures of the roof. We have had the siding and shingles off several times and water still get in. Money and time trying to patch it isn’t worth it, if there is a way to redo the whole thing we will do it.


#15

the old water slamin into the wall problem.

cricket.

also if your leak has been in the same place all along
then it may be coming from somewhere else.

usaully when you do work to an area that is causeing the leak and it still leaks , it will atleast
alter the leak a bit, make it worse,
somethin.

gweedo.


#16

gweedo, I hope to have actual pictures of the roof tomorrow. After haveing a roofing company come 3 times, we, my daughter and I took off all the siding and shingles on the side where the valley hits into the wrong place. In the begining it leaked all along the edge where the roof meets the wall. We put the Ice and water shield on the wall and continued that out on the roof. Then we put step flashing with felt over that. My daughter built a piece of flashing out of copper for the corner. It stopped leaking. We had gutters installed
(another botched job to the tune of $4200.00) that we will have to redo. He on his own saw the valley hit into the wall & put a so called water deverter on the roof and nailed it into the side of the wall where we had flashing. Now it leaks again, but just on the corner where the wall turns. A boy who was doing other work suggested a cricket. We just weren’t sure about that as the only kind we have seen was behind a chimney. Is that the type you are speaking of? If so and you feel this is the answer, we will have it done.

My advice to any one building a house, do the simplest roof possible, unless you live in an area where you can find men who are craftsmen and take pride in their work. This is a very attractive roof, carriage house shingles, brown with brick red flowers.
This design was on a certainteed brochure. The water shield was applied to the whole roof. Pretty roof filled with nightmares.


#17

you said a mouth full when you said keep it simple.

your roofs not simple.

you will probably run into future roof problems.

but if you say your daughters fabricated peace of copper flashing worked(smart daughter), then i would tear out gutter dudes diverter and seal nail holes, and then see if leak percist.
if it does, then i would do the cricket and make shure roofer is comfortable redoing the bottom of a valley.
he/she may want to do entire valley.
which is understandable, cause its very hard to repair the bottom couple feet.

the cricket will basically turn the bottom of the valley so it dumps out at the corner of the wall,
instead of 2 ft back, keeping the flow of water
off the wall.

also let us know were you at.
theres alot of good cricket installers here.

gweedo.


#18

Here are a few pictures of the problem area. The gutter will be redone as we all ready know that is a problem but the corner leak has been on going. Here is a link where you can see all pictures. I didn’t want to put all of them here, as it would take up a lot of space.

http://www.helpfixit.shutterfly.com
Click to see more pictures.

http://www.roofing.com/images/topics/5928/img_1195094493.jpg


#19

It is sad to see that they used what looks to be, cheap aluminum trim coil stock for the valley metal.

I may be wrong, but thicker and better Kynar 500 coated metal does not scratch that easy.

Also, you have one additional problem now that I see your photos, which is contributing to the source of the leak.

See that “Pink” corner trim board?

It is inhibiting the path of water flowage and damming it up just behind that corner.

**Also, when you and your daughter remove that board, look at the step flashing that is on the lowest portion of that wall.

There should be a sheet metal flashing that turns the corner on the bottom face of that wall first and then the step flashing on the sloped wall to the left of the valley metal should be bent to go over the bottom apron base flashing.

The better way, if it was not done initially, would have been to install Grace Ice and Water Shield bituthane membrane transcending from the roof plane to the vertical wall plane prior to the roof flashings being installed and prior to the siding being installed.

Well, probably too late for that, but I just wanted to point that detail out.

When the corner trim board gets re-installed, cut about 1" to 1 1/2" off of the bottom of the board where it is now almost flush to the roof surface.**
Ed


#20

First of all I am sorry to see that your top of the line roof leaks, I am sure it wasn’t inexpensive…

That valley can be easily fixed by doing what Ranch hand said.
Extending the valley to drain at the corner (or even beyond the corner).
It looks like a small area (less than 1\2 sq).
If you can find a talented tradesmen to do some copper work that shouldn’t be too much of a problem.
You will end up with a little pitch transition and some siding re-working.
I wouldn’t expect it to be too cheap but you have some rather expensive materials there…
The valley is going to hit the wall, that is where the copper work comes into play.
Even if you extend the valley to drain at the corner the metal valley is still going to hit the wall, this is where it needs to be soldered.
I always use “w” valleys, so in this case I would extend the valley to drain past (or downslope) the corner, and do the details as needed.

In my opinion, With a roof like this you shouldn’t have these kinds of problems.
The cost of materials for this type of roof demands extra special attention to details.
I am sure your roofer charged more for this installation, A good roofer could have made it work as is for at least 20 yrs…
We have ways of making a roof able to hold water, it ain’t right but we can do it…