Insurance Supplements: Part II


#1

This came up on another thread so I decided to make a separate thread to perhaps better share the information. The images below show a supplement I submitted this past week and got approved. We routinely get supplements prepared in this manner approved with the majority of the insurance companies. While I haven’t tried it without using Xactimate, I see no reason it wouldn’t work with other methods. I’d like to believe it is content that is important, not format. I believe what works is (1) List the item; (2) Brief explanation of why it is being supplemented; (3) picture of the item the supplement is being requested for. What you are doing is presenting your case to a Claims Representative who has never been to the property, never will be to the property and only has the scope and pictures from their adjuster to go off of. It is your job, if you want to be successful, to present compelling evidence as to why your supplemental request should be approved. A hand written list of items simply won’t suffice in most cases or at minimum, will require some pretty intense, slick negotiating on your part. It took less than 10 minutes on the phone with the Claims Representative to get this 100% approved. Admittedly, he did list the items for the chimney as PWI (paid when incurred) meaning I have to now go to the municipality this roof is being built in, get their building code document and send it in to prove this enforcement of law item is required. See the pipe jack boot? Looks like it has adhesive applied to it and the shingles around it. Who do you think will argue this pipe jack boot can be salvaged?

We added $1,089.44 to this estimate with this supplement for valid items. We will end up getting around $285 per square for this roof, 3 tab 2 story steep. While that won’t make us wealthy, I believe that is a reasonable price that we can make a fair profit off of.

http://www.roofing.com/forum/gallery/image.php?album_id=367&image_id=1326

http://www.roofing.com/forum/gallery/image.php?album_id=367&image_id=1331

http://www.roofing.com/forum/gallery/image.php?album_id=367&image_id=1329

http://www.roofing.com/forum/gallery/image.php?album_id=367&image_id=1330

http://www.roofing.com/forum/gallery/image.php?album_id=367&image_id=1328

http://www.roofing.com/forum/gallery/image.php?album_id=367&image_id=1327


State Farm denied to pay for chimney flashing
#2

And for those with sharp eyes, yes, I screwed up and put in the wrong line item for the ridge vent. I saw this when I started the conversation with the claims representative and he changed it to the correct one at his end (was a little more money for us :smiley: )


#3

What do you normally do with step flashing? I didn’t see anything in the estimate for that.
Nice estimate… I would of put a bigger chimney flashing though.


#4

Bravo, AD!

Don’t overlook the actual situation here, guys. We all do all those things AD just got approved on this job. He added $1100 or so to his profit with this simple? process.

I have to supplement all my future jobs anyway, since shingle prices went up 30% in four days. So, why shouldn’t I just go ahead and supplement for all the things I do extra.

I do have a question for you. Do you think Xactimate is the best software to use? I will start my 30 day trial today, if they let me. From your previous posts, it looks like I should be able to handle it. I will supplement for the things I do, and I agree that it will be thousands per job.

My fear has never subsided that the insurers will get mad at me for not being a team player anymore. However, I truly cannot live with these prices I have. I would go broke, no joke or exaggeration. Up to now, I won some and I lost some. I know that was a bit irresponsible for the team here.

Today is the day for me. I do owe the credit to you, AD. Thanks for all you do for all of us!


#5

[quote=“828br”]What do you normally do with step flashing? I didn’t see anything in the estimate for that.
Nice estimate… I would of put a bigger chimney flashing though.[/quote]

Step/counter flashing is hard to get paid for. If there is a interior leak that is part of the claim and we can trace the leak to a flashing, we’ll put it in. Seems like the popular statement right now from the insurance companies is “if it isn’t damaged by the storm, we aren’t paying for it”. If I could get our Crews or Reps to take pictures of damaged flashing or flashing damaged during the demo, I’d turn it in as a supplement. It would be a very rare job where at least some flashing isn’t done.


#6

[quote=“Gary”]Bravo, AD!

Don’t overlook the actual situation here, guys. We all do all those things AD just got approved on this job. He added $1100 or so to his profit with this simple? process.

I have to supplement all my future jobs anyway, since shingle prices went up 30% in four days. So, why shouldn’t I just go ahead and supplement for all the things I do extra.

I do have a question for you. Do you think Xactimate is the best software to use? I will start my 30 day trial today, if they let me. From your previous posts, it looks like I should be able to handle it. I will supplement for the things I do, and I agree that it will be thousands per job.

My fear has never subsided that the insurers will get mad at me for not being a team player anymore. However, I truly cannot live with these prices I have. I would go broke, no joke or exaggeration. Up to now, I won some and I lost some. I know that was a bit irresponsible for the team here.

Today is the day for me. I do owe the credit to you, AD. Thanks for all you do for all of us![/quote]

There should be a new price list out tomorrow, hopefully, it wil reflect the material price increases.

Is Xactimate the best software to use? Define best. On one hand, I certainly agree with Larry (lmb) that Xactimate rates are lower than what real market value should be. However, I think a lot that contributes to this is people not knowing how to put together a “complete” Xactimate estimate. If you define best as being able to gain approvals and cooperation from the insurance companies, then without doubt, I believe it is the best. It basically allows both parties to speak the same language. I think the key is understanding how to use the tool(s) to get maximum efficiency.

Team player? If they are “team players”, shouldn’t they want your company to get what is owed to you to be sure you’re financially stable and able to serve your Customers? If me requesting the insurance company to pay for VALID items that should be paid for causes me to be kicked off the team, then please just call me Mr. Lonely, that’s not a team I want to be on. You may have an occasional Adjuster that considers you greedy for pushing all these items. You may get comments like “You’re the only company in the area asking for this”, “Nobody else does it this way”, “There’s plenty of money in there to pay for that” … which are all BS comments IMHO. The fact that other companies are doing it incorrectly doesn’t have any bearing on our desire to do it the right way. And I don’t need any Adjuster suddenly becoming my Chief Financial Officer and determining what is plenty of money and what isn’t. We make every effort to treat insurance company employees/representatives with professional courtesy and respect. We expect the same in return. If their morals or competency isn’t where it should be, that is no reason for us to accept a lower profit margin. We aren’t asking for illegitimate items, these are items that should be paid for. We know it, they know it.


#7

[quote=“Gary”]Bravo, AD!

My fear has never subsided that the insurers will get mad at me for not being a team player anymore. However, I truly cannot live with these prices I have. I would go broke, no joke or exaggeration. Up to now, I won some and I lost some. I know that was a bit irresponsible for the team here.

Today is the day for me. I do owe the credit to you, AD. Thanks for all you do for all of us![/quote]

AD does give good advice!

In 1964, Minnesota Viking Great Jim Marshall committed the ultimate sports “sin” while playing against the San Francisco 49’ers. After picking up a fumble, instead of running the ball to his goal, he ran the other way. In the excitement (the 49’er fans were screaming “go, go, go”) the adrenline kicked in and he made it to the opposing teams goal line where he threw the ball up in the air in celebration. That errant play earned him the nick name “Wrong Way” Marshall which stuck with him throughout his career.


#8

The Xactimate line item for step flashing (RFGSTEP) actually has 3 components:

    • Replace
  1. I Install Only
  2. M Material Only

On my current month the prices are as follows:

  1. Replace $5.34
  2. Install Only $4.08
  3. Material Only $1.26

Even on jobs where it is not necessary to replace the step flashings you still have to reinstall the ones that are currently there. They do not magically place themselves in the proper position when you install the shingles. Therefore, you figure out how many LF feet of wall you have to install and include it as an “Install Only” in your line item.

For example, 50’ of wall gets you an additional $204 added to the claim.


#9

[quote=“dstew66”]

The Xactimate line item for step flashing (RFGSTEP) actually has 3 components:

    • Replace
  1. I Install Only
  2. M Material Only

On my current month the prices are as follows:

  1. Replace $5.34
  2. Install Only $4.08
  3. Material Only $1.26

Even on jobs where it is not necessary to replace the step flashings you still have to reinstall the ones that are currently there. They do not magically place themselves in the proper position when you install the shingles. Therefore, you figure out how many LF feet of wall you have to install and include it as an “Install Only” in your line item.

For example, 50’ of wall gets you an additional $204 added to the claim.[/quote]

dstew, do you get paid for this 75% of the time or more? By and large, you don’t have to do much manipulating for the sidewall flashings but if they’ll pay for it, that would be great. Thanks dstew, great input!!!


#10

Actually, I don’t recall ever not getting paid for it when I included it. It may not take much manipulating, but it does slow down the process.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but one normally has to stop, measure a shingle, cut it to size, place it into position, properly place the step flashing in its correct place and then fasten it properly. That would make it a 5-step process to reinstall just 1 step flashing. Then you have to repeat the process all the way up the entire wall. Seems to be much more labor intensive than simply banging on shingles.

Also, most claims that have chimneys get the chimney flashing line items included. Many times those do not have to be replaced either. I don’t see any difference. If they are paying for chimney’s there is no reason not to pay for step and counter flashing install either.


#11

[quote=“dstew66”]

Actually, I don’t recall ever not getting paid for it when I included it. It may not take much manipulating, but it does slow down the process.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but one normally has to stop, measure a shingle, cut it to size, place it into position, properly place the step flashing in its correct place and then fasten it properly. That would make it a 5-step process to reinstall just 1 step flashing. Then you have to repeat the process all the way up the entire wall. Seems to be much more labor intensive than simply banging on shingles.

Also, most claims that have chimneys get the chimney flashing line items included. Many times those do not have to be replaced either. I don’t see any difference. If they are paying for chimney’s there is no reason not to pay for step and counter flashing install either.[/quote]

I see the routine chimney flash adder having mostly gone away in the past month or so. What I hear more and more is “if it isn’t storm damaged, we’re not paying for it”. What I’m asking our guys to do when they inspect is to first inspect the chimney flashing to determine if it is damaged in any manner. If it is, take pictures. Second, if there is an interior leak that appears to be the result of the chimney, we attempt to use that as a justification for a new chimney flash.

While I am absolutely thrilled to learn about your method for getting the step flashing charge approved, I am disgusted with myself for having not tried this. It means we probably left $50,000 or more on the table in the last year. :cry:


#12

Well, I guess when it gets slow this winter you could sit down and file the 200 or so supplements on those past claims. :lol:

Sounds like it would be a profitable endeavor.


#13

[quote=“dstew66”]

Well, I guess when it gets slow this winter you could sit down and file the 200 or so supplements on those past claims. :lol:

Sounds like it would be a profitable endeavor.[/quote]

Do you read minds on top of your other special skills? LMAO! Assuming the offer is accepted, we will have someone in place in a couple of weeks whose primary responsibility will be filing supplements and following up on them with the insurance companies.


#14

[quote=“Authentic_Dad”]

Actually, I don’t recall ever not getting paid for it when I included it. It may not take much manipulating, but it does slow down the process.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but one normally has to stop, measure a shingle, cut it to size, place it into position, properly place the step flashing in its correct place and then fasten it properly. That would make it a 5-step process to reinstall just 1 step flashing. Then you have to repeat the process all the way up the entire wall. Seems to be much more labor intensive than simply banging on shingles.

Also, most claims that have chimneys get the chimney flashing line items included. Many times those do not have to be replaced either. I don’t see any difference. If they are paying for chimney’s there is no reason not to pay for step and counter flashing install either.

I see the routine chimney flash adder having mostly gone away in the past month or so. What I hear more and more is “if it isn’t storm damaged, we’re not paying for it”. What I’m asking our guys to do when they inspect is to first inspect the chimney flashing to determine if it is damaged in any manner. If it is, take pictures. [highlight=#ffffbf]Second, if there is an interior leak that appears to be the result of the chimney, we attempt to use that as a justification for a new chimney flash.[/highlight]
While I am absolutely thrilled to learn about your method for getting the step flashing charge approved, I am disgusted with myself for having not tried this. It means we probably left $50,000 or more on the table in the last year. :cry:[/quote]

Adjuster Supervisor: "The interior leak is a maintenance issue that the homeowner should have taken care of"
Homeowner and Me:"There was no leak before the storm, so how is not storm damage?"
A.S.:"Thank you Mr. homeowner for allowing us to pay for your claim."
Us:"You haven’t, we asked you some questions, that have not been answered."
A.S.:"We are glad to have been there for you"
It went on like that, all while the A.S. never looked up at us never making eye contact. I thought the homeowner was going to deck the coward robot… True Story, I recorded the whole conversation… we are still fighting to this day!

Oh and step flashing is not required, so we should all listen up and do as we are told.


#15

Another thing to think about (I know this is an old post but i just read it) When supplementing insurance companies know who will pay for what. I believe I read that step flashing and counter flashing is hard to get paid for. In most cases it is however with Met Life, USAA and Kemper it is most likely to get paid for. State Farm Allstate and Nationwide will not pay for it (most of the time). Of course i ask for it with every insurance company because just like the field adjusters are so different so are the desk adjusters. Know your insurance companies and know what they will and will not pay for. Im fairly new at this (less then 2 years as a supplementing and estimating guy) but my average per supplement is right at $1600 in some states and $1200 in others.


#16

Topped to assist people with supplements. I can’t believe nearly 3 years have passed since I posted this thread, seems like yesterday.


#17

Since you do have to remove and reset step flashing there should be no reason it’s not included or supplementable (is that actually a word…lol).


#18

Hi everyone,
I’m new here. I know this is an older thread, but it’s full of great info.

I wanted to check in and see if anyone is having issues with State Farm lately, in regards to supplements.

Lately, when I send the completion paperwork in and have my supplement attached…the adjuster looks at it and releases the withheld deprecation with no consideration of even discussing my supplement. The exception is drip edge. I always cite the building code and never have an issue getting drip approved.
However, for line items to detach and reset roof vents, (install only) chimney flashing and pipe boots, (install only) step flashing…they won’t even consider it.
When I call to try to discuss, they are like a broken record…"Our policy only covers what was actually damaged."
I try to explain that we are just requesting for the claim to be adjusted to reflect a correct install, which includes the before mentioned items. I’ve had no luck.
Is anyone experiencing this with State Farm specifically? If so, do you have any tactics that has produced some success?


#19

The vast majority of the time, it is advantageous to have supplements reviews and approved prior to doing the work. Once the work is complete, you’ve lost your leverage with the homeowner and the insurance company. IMHO, supplementing with the work completion is a last resort and most often, destined to fail.

I will write more later.


#20

I definitely understand where you are coming from. We will be implementing some training with our reps to have them go over this kind of stuff during the adjustment.
I was just trying to figure out an upper hand with State Farm in the mean time.
I certainly appreciate your response.