GAF Timberline/Liberty Install quality lacking?


#1

The pix below show a the results of a 10 month old complete rip-off and new install. Most of the roof was arch shingled with GAF Timberline 40s. the shed roof (2.1p) was rolled using GAF Liberty/cap etc.

My concerns are the wrinkles:
http://www.mountcrumpit.com/images/21%20Susan%20(Roof%20Wrinkles%20SP%2008).jpg
The valley laps with air under them:
http://www.mountcrumpit.com/images/21%20Susan%20(Roof%20Concern%20Valley%20orientation%20SP%2008).jpg
http://www.mountcrumpit.com/images/21%20Susan%20(Roof%20Concern%20Valley%20Loose%20lap-3%20SP%2008).jpg

and the penetrations:
http://www.mountcrumpit.com/images/21%20Susan%20(Roof%20Concern%20penetration%20SP%2008).jpg
http://www.mountcrumpit.com/images/21%20Susan%20(Roof%20Concern%20penetration-2%20SP%2008).jpg

Are those wrinkles normal/ok? I’ve avoided stepping on them because there is air under them and I’ve seen how easily the stuff can tear.

There are two valleys with rolled lapped. Not all the laps have air under them. And there is Grace I&W under them. when I pressed on one the air came out with the leafduff too (see pic). Are these laps in need of repair or replacement?

The penetration shown was done months after the roof was put on. I get that its tough to put this thing under the roof after the roof is on. But should it have been done? Will the goop be enough to last the 15 year warranty period for the roof?

If this is all acceptable good practice Great! thanks for the confirmation – But if not:
When i call Joe the Roofer back how can I convince him I know the job is incorrect (being an ignorant homeowner – and not having one of you folks ready to step out from behind the chimney?)

thanks, Bryan
ps if the pix don’t show I don’t know why – they did preview in the bbcode but not in the post preview. The URLs in them are accurate (cut and paste to another browser window and you’re ok)

-Link Edit and Fixed-


#2

http://www.mountcrumpit.com/images/21%20Susan%20(Roof%20Concern%20penetration-2%20SP%2008).jpg

http://www.mountcrumpit.com/images/21%20Susan%20(Roof%20Concern%20penetration%20SP%2008).jpg


#3

http://www.mountcrumpit.com/images/21%20Susan%20(Roof%20Concern%20Valley%20Loose%20lap-3%20SP%2008).jpg

http://www.mountcrumpit.com/images/21%20Susan%20(Roof%20Concern%20Valley%20orientation%20SP%2008).jpg


#4

The stack was never flashed and the valleys were not pushed in and sealed. I could not see the wrinkles Sorry. I am Not falmiluar with the liberty by GAf. If it is not a modified product I would not use it. I have used peal and stick Modified and it works very well for me. That 90# granual stuff I would not put on a dog house. Torch down or peal and stick Modified. Other wise you get what you pay for. Sorry.


#5

Sloppy looking install for sure. flashing is not right. a bead of tar is not flashing. In cold weather these type of roofs are tricky. If you have to do one in cold temps remember to keep rolls warm in a heated area untill right before use. It also helps to use a liester gun to seal down the side laps. Dont forget to use a base sheet and to prime your drip edge flange.Little things make a big difference.


#6

Wow that is sloppy. Unacceptable. When you call Joe the Roofer just ask him if he would be proud of it being on his house. I highly doubt he would. If it were me, I would run the liberty base cap over the flashing like you do with regular shingled, then tar the insides of it. Thats what I do anyways. Its better do it when its warm so it sticks down tight. He shouldve kept it warm.

I have been house looking and being a roofer and siding guy I always look at the outside. One house that I put an offer in and I wanted them to take care of some problems with the roof they didnt think they had because they had JUST gotten it done. They called the contractor, whom I met with and I showed him my problems. The hips werent close to straight. Some pipes were done wrong. The ridge wasnt straight. Anyways, he said he would not allow it on his house so he redid them and after some other things were taken care of I bought the house. Funny thing is, homeowner said he saw that guy up there working on the roof and being the last one off of it.


#7

That happens a lot in valleys.

It looks like he gave a slightly bigger lap right there
which means the lap underneath is sealed.

When you drop the lap(make it bigger)
The sticky isnt sticking to sticky.
Its trying to stick to granules and wont stick.
But the lap is secure underneath. notice you couldn’t get your finger past half inch or so.

This system only works on a roof that has a good pitch. Congratulations, you got it.

Roofer did a OK job. I dont see any real problems except for the vent.
You admitted the vent went in after the roofing job.
Roofer needs to come back and install the roofing on top of that heater-vent.
Cold process modified bitumin lap grade over all,
put your modified,liberty “cedar” over it. sprinkle cedar Granules over everything black. done

The roofer will need at least 130 dollars in material to work this in right, not to mention the labor, the overhead and the profit.

75-80 dollars for a roll of cedar liberty modified.
25-35 for the cold process modified bitumen grade lap cement.(5 gallons only)
25 dollars for a bucket of cedar granules.(5 gallons only) you might have to call every roofing supply house in town to find this or get a match.
So 300 dollars at least in my opinion.

or take the list i gave you, buy it and do it your self. You will use very little of all those things but that is what you or the roofer will have to buy to do the job “right”.


#8

Roof-lover and all thank you!
I had a feeling your comments would be as they are.
Bad news: its a sloppy job. Good news?: I still owe the GC his final payment. Although now I can’t tell him to go away.

Understand the follow-up work for the ventstacks.

Roof-lover, the valley laps “voids” are deep (well more than an inch or two (my fingers don’t go deep because I didn’t want to tear or loosen it any more) (I got a good puff of air and leafduff when i pressed on top of the loose laps.) I’ll take a flash-light up and put cheek to granules and see if it is a long lap situation.

Can anyone comment on the wrinkles? the pic (My view of the original post does now show all the pics – it didn’t yesterday). thanks.

I’d hoped to be done with the GC. The crew (ukranian) did well with the copper flashing (not pictured). But that was the only heat I ever saw up there. The temp was probably in the 60s when the rolled was installed. The GAF/LIberty Cedar is considered modified? I seem to remember it being peel and stick but can’t be sure.

Add to that, the first day after ripoff, I went up and the rake edge (for the shingling areas) was under the felt. Not a biggee for this part of the land (inland NE) And! the biggee: they were starting the shingling (remember timberline arch.) in the center of the course and workig out with no respect to the instructions of starting at the end and trimming off 6 1/2" chunks (or whateer that number is) from each 2,3 &4th course. (ie treating it like a more generic 3-tab). They took of the 20 sq ft and started over, correctly. Although when the job was done I could find spots where they didn’t always follow the cutting rule. Curse my eye for detail.

Can’t blame the penetrations on the roofers though – that was either the GCs crew or the plumbers (for the tall one) and the electricians (for the little one near the edge down slope).

I have no idea if the drip edge flange was primed. With what would it be primed? adhesive like PL?

thanks to all y’alls help, B

I learned again today.


#9

EDIT–PICTURE UPDATE!!!
Woah, ok, i did all i could do!
It looks like the needed material will be used.

You put that new plumbing pipe there also along with that heat vent after the roof installation.

This going to be a GOOOOOD thread. lol.
And boy am i loling.

The wrinkles, boy, i would want to know what caused them so i dont ever do it again.

Liberty is modified. It is their peel n stick modified bitumen. I have not used it.
I have used certainteeds peel n stick modified and i am not estatic about that either.

To be perfectly honest with you. I bet they followed the manufactuers directions EXACTLY!
And thats why it has wrinkles in it!

Gweedo says hes done some peel-n-stick.
I’d be honored to hear his take on how not to get wrinkles in this.

Good thread. this one.


#10

The valleys should be done with a separate piece centered in there and the field sheets cut into that.
no bridging that way.


#11

We seal our storm collars. We do not Flash like that. We only use Mule Hide peel and stick. We get an occasional wrinkle, those seem excessive. I would be much more concerned about your flashings, Which according to the NRCA is not the way to do that. You got a 15 year product and a 2 year (if your lucky) workmanship. Round here a few ice cycles would have your roof leaking.

Good luck


#12

thoose skylights and vent pipes are going to leak as well, if they dont already.


#13

Is that a hand print on the heating cap?

Poor quality for sure.


#14

All i can say is wow.


#15

LOL It dose look like a hand print. Our roof forman always says “ya aint doen it right unless ya git the tar all over ya.” :slight_smile:

I must do it right… This guy wanted to get it on the cap right. :slight_smile:


#16

I believe the wrinkles in the roll roofing is from the underlayment. The roll material is nearly the same as regular shingles and will conform to whatever shape it’s over when they settle in the sun, they must have had some sizable wrinkles in thier felt and figured the weight of the material would push them out. Those areas will wear more quickly then the rest and are more susceptable to puncture or cracking, especially if you get up there in the winter to remove snow.


#17

So it seems all my concerns are valid.

The wrinkles are from underlayment? Because: they didn’t use those orange 1/2" disc reinforced nails on the ul? It wasn’t felt, it was Garce Tri-flex, then the GAF ul and finally the cap sheet) And/or because until the modified went on the roof only had the tri-flex and it rained heavily at least twice? The day they started I tore off the wet “felt” See the pic:
http://www.roofing.com/images/topics/7137/img_1228933729.jpg
They didn’t install here for at 48 hours. I don’t remember how much “moisture” was left at that time.

Yes, that is a hand-print (it has the date too at bottom “2008”). I took that as a sign of pride. And, in the plumbing crew there was a member who was, ahem, enamored of himself. I saw the same initials in various locations. Fine, prideful of work, enough to associate himself with it, but that’s no reason to think a plumber can do a roofer’s job.

One question, RooferJ, you say the skylights also need attention? Why? They were in place before the modified with attached/built-in copper flashing (Velux).

thanks again to all, B