Durolast hell


#1

I had decided on covering my flat roof (68 sqrs) with the Durolast membrane. Part of the attraction was that I could cover over my old SPF foam roof quick and easy.
The contractor and sales rep dangled this cover method as a way to get the job while minimising most talk of old roof and wood replacement. As the crew started, it became quickly obvious that the wood decking was all rotted out and therefore was a total tearoff.

During the tearoff, A layer of lightcrete was removed which was meant to provide a slight slope, though I didnt know that at the time. The contractor said the purpose of the lightcrete must have been to provide rigidity. When we got down to joists and structure, we noticed that many of old joists sagged in the middle.

Only rotted out joists were replaced and the sags ignored. Decking was nailed down, and two layers of inch and one half ISO board layed down and then the Durolast membrane layed over that.

Everything looked good until the first rain when I saw new giant ponds all over. The averaged about inch and one half to 2 inches deep and were like 8 ft by 30 feet in size. Turns out the removal of the lightcrete plus the saggy joists created a sort of bathtub effect over every room. The joists are 2x8, 18 inch on center, 12 ft span.

The contractors solution to the ponding was to cut out a “trough” by removing a piece of the ISO board out of the 2 layers so that the water had a path out. (this is a flat flat roof, no parapet walls)
I thought this was a real hack way fixing things.
I wanted a uniform 2 layers of ISO board throughout and not having “missing teeth” all over. I would have preffered that the contractor build up the dips with thin layers of styroboard but because he would have to lift off the durolast membrane to do that and so he didnt want to. Then we argued, work stopped and now I’m not sure what to do next. The durolast itself is not affected by ponding but I find it hard to believe that ponding of this size is nothing to worry about. Drains are out too.


#2

why are drains out?


#3

[quote]During the tearoff, A layer of lightcrete was removed which was meant to provide a slight slope, though I didnt know that at the time. The contractor said the purpose of the lightcrete must have been to provide rigidity. When we got down to joists and structure, we noticed that many of old joists sagged in the middle.
[/quote]

the lightcrete was a cricket , thats what it`s used for , nothing more , your contractor should have replaced the cricket with another cricket, not neccisairily lightcrete but he still should have made another cricket where the lightcrete was removed , they do make a ISO board board saddle material although it is a little pricey

[quote]Everything looked good until the first rain when I saw new giant ponds all over. The averaged about inch and one half to 2 inches deep and were like 8 ft by 30 feet in size. Turns out the removal of the lightcrete plus the saggy joists created a sort of bathtub effect over every room. The joists are 2x8, 18 inch on center, 12 ft span.
[/quote]

pics would be nice

[quote]The contractors solution to the ponding was to cut out a “trough” by removing a piece of the ISO board out of the 2 layers so that the water had a path out. (this is a flat flat roof, no parapet walls)
I thought this was a real hack way fixing things[/quote]

your right it is a real hack way of fixing things

to me you both are a little to blame for this , the contractor because he was to dumb to know what a cricket is and you for hiring a dumb contractor

as for the ponding , is the water gone after 72 hours ? if it is then its not a problem if its not gone or you just don’t want the weight of it on your building then have your contractor install a cricket large enough to handle the area (next time think about a tapered system under your roof membrane)

if he wont remove the durolast and install the cricket (and i doubt that he will ) see if he will install the cricket ontop of the existing durolast and then cover it

http://www.crinc.org/tapered.asp some usefull information about crickets


#4

Without removing any of the old roof or insulation, a contractor can secure down additional tapered insulation to create a cricket to divert the water from the low spots to the drainage location(s).

This newly installed cricket can then be covered with another pre-fabricated section of the Duro-Last singlr ply roofing membrane.

I would consider the additional weight of the ponding water to be a concern to the already deformed and sagging rafters under the decking. This light weight saddle would alleviate this additional load bearing stress from the rafters.

I have installed thousands of square feet of Duro-Last, and I would also bring this up to their supposed Quality Contral Inspection department.

Ed


#5

Hello,

It does not seem to me that 2 layers of 1 AND 1/2 ISO board will give you enough R-Value in your roof.I believe that is only about an R-20 to an R-24. Our code in Alaska is an R-38 for the roof. I would check your code and make sure.

Keith


#6

That Dura-last roof might be fine right now, but wait 5 years… :cry:

Thats all I’m going to say.


#7

i gotta go with g on this…5 yrs…max


#8

Same question …


#9

another option is to work with a plumber and roofer to install interior roof drains in the low spots. This can be a cost effective and easy solution.


#10

hello ranger8,
your roof reminds me of a roof i did bout 15 years ago in clearwater florida, appartment complex, bout same size, no ceiling space , every livingroom sagging.

i had to use a ,flat , side outlet, drain over every unit, runnin the pipe between the deck and ceiling
( bout 8 inches of space).

worked well.

ponding areas on plywood 2x6 struture can tear a roof
apart, from the movent that accurs when it fills up then drys out.

as far as durolast goes.
its been on all the checkers burger places around tampa bay, and theve been here bout 15 - 20 yrs.
so it’ll last.
but i think its a llitle to much for the average roofer to get rite.

wheres the roof located?
maybe one of us can help.

gweedo.


#11

thanks all for the great comments. replies below.

look at what this certified durolast did to my roof.
large ponds 1-1 1/4 inch deep. I just wonder how much ice this will become in a michigan winter. (dye added to water for better contrast and dramatic effect)

here we can see the choppy, sloppy look that comes from chopping out sections of ISOboard in to create drainage paths to the edge. Not enough was chopped out to drain the water and there is no more ISOboard to chop out to deepen the path. So what now? Chop out some of the wood sheathing? My contractor might.

Sloppy edge work. The ISOboard was sawzalled in an attempt to lower the edge so that water drains.

The ponds last much longer than 72 hours. Drains are out because the joists are in the way and there is only 1-2 inches between the joists and the ceiling panel below.

I cant believe that this contractor took out the lightcrete slope cricket without a word as to replacing the slope feature. When tapered insulation was mentioned, all he’d say is that its very expensive and only schools and other big budget entities would consider such things. I did a little price checking on that and found that I could’ve put a tapered system on my roof for $2000 more on a 60 square roof. I would have 1 layer of ISO with the tapered boards on top instead of 2 layers of ISO.

quote" “if he wont remove the durolast and install the cricket (and i doubt that he will ) see if he will install the cricket ontop of the existing durolast and then cover it”

Interesting Idea. Maybe this is the best way out.

I have talked to the Durolast QC dept., and although they seemed sympathetic to my gripes, they didnt exactly have the authority to order the contractors much besides “putting a bug in his ear.”

So I’m hearing 5 yrs max till I get a leak? Wow, thats a lot less than the 15 yr warranty term. Even though the warranty would take care of it, its still a major disruption and a leak in one of the pond zones would create not a leak but a waterfall inside.

thanks all, this dispute continues until I can come to some solution agreement with the contractor.

Ranger


#12

Some things to consider, probably the reason your Durolast QC person wasn’t much help is because Durolast, when they approve an applicator, the specs that are the newest specs at the time of approval, are the specs that the installer goes by. Any new specs are irrelevent. Looks like this installer was one of the first guys to be approved in that area. We have an installer here that was litterally one of the first installers, you should see the problems with their roofs!!! We are always getting calls to come out on the building owners dime and make the adequate repairs to their roofs.

What is going to happen in 5-7 years is the membrane will start to shrink and tighten up. When that happens, little tiny pin holes will stat to appear. These little pin holes are either from the factory and were overlooked or the installer burnt these holes in the membrane because they were too slow in working with the Lyster or whatever other heat gun they were using. Sometimes we see that the Lyster on wheels will stop for a split second at each factory seam and burn a tiny pin hole at each spot. Again, these holes won’t appear for a few years.

The problam with these holes in this membrane is that after so many years it is almost impossible to heat weld a patch to the membrane. And now we are finding out that it is even difficult to use either a chemical weld or a self adhered patch to these also. A good caulk such as Vulkem or Duralink is about your only true repair.

I do have to say though that Duralast is one of the new heatwelded membranes that does last the longest, being able to make the repairs as needed on them. Others we are ONLY able to caulk them. and I wouldn’t want to rely on caulk for the rest of the 10-15 year warranty!!!

Good Luck.


#13

call me crazy but it looks to me as if your problem is more structural than roof related.it appears that you have some serious sagging going on.please post a closeup of the ac line penetrations …please


#14

Hi

I don’t see how durolast would honor a warranty since the water stays there longer than 72hrs. Not to mention all the ponding areas are in the worst area’s (right around the penetrations). Your best bet is to get durolast to physically look at the roof with water on it and find out if they warranty it. if they don’t then go back to the installer and ask him to fix it so that durolast will honor there warranty. What type of written warranty do you have in writing from your contractor? as previously stated this contractor had no clue what he was doing any expercienced contractor would know what a cricket is. Not to mention he should had planned on installing a tapered system on this roof to begin with. Good luck. :slight_smile:


#15

I have got to reply to all of this nonsense I am reading. I do not do much Duro-Last any longer, because I primarily did it on new constrction or remodeling of restaurants and gas stations and do not do as much travelling for jobs as I once did and primarily focus on historic residential roofing instead.

The Duro-Last Warrany specifically states it is still in full force even under ponded water conditions. There is no 72 hour limitation on the water integrity of the membrane.

Once the membrane is properly cleaned, it is quite reweldable even ten plus years later. The only instance I ever had significant problems getting the membrane cean enough was on an old Burger King restaurant around the exhaust fans, which dispelled mass quantities of grease and fat all over the entire surface of the roof membrane.

I have gone back and installed saddles and crickets on top of the existing roof with the perlite A,B,C, and D panels. You can get them in either a 1/8" per foot or 1/4" per foot tapered slope. When you get to the end of the 4th increment panel, you have to add an inch of perlite or Isocyanurate as a filler and continue on with the tapered system on top of that and repeat as necessary.

I would use the 1/4" per foot material and shed the flowage all the way to the area where the water is intended to purge from the roof.

The membrane is not the problem, it is the sagging of the support structure.

The problem with most of the D-L Quality Contral techs, is that if they are truly conscientious and diligent, they get recruited by a contractor to run a crew for them. Lots of rep turnaround with that occurring.

Yes, if a man is too slow while welding over the factory dielectrically welded seams, some seperation can occur. That would be under warranty. I have 3 Leister robot automatic welders and they do not stop spntaneously unless they run into an obstruction or have run out the length of A/C cord.

If the pin hole problem ever were to occur, that would be due to excessive heat at a medium temperature remaining in one place for too long. You can quite readily see an area which has this problem by inspecting the seams and seeing if any of the polyester reinforcement scrim is exposed. A small cigarrette or cigar burn will cause the same effect too.

If they removed a tapered system that was already in place and did not accomodate the drainage issues, then the contractor should be held responsible for reimplementing a new tapered system, unless his contract stated that was the scope of work to be done. If so, then you, unfortunately, are the one to be financially responsible for the remediation work to correct the drainage issue.

Ed

P.S. I do not see any sleepers with roof walkway pads as a buffering shield under any of the roof top units. This can eventually penetrate the membrane from vibration and possible sharp edges.