Dealing with insurance adjusters


#1

Hey guys
I am in the process of dealing with and insurance adjuster on a wind damage claim. The adjuster is telling me that since only one side has missing shingles that they are only going to replace one side of the roof. The shingles are a Celotex dimensional shingle which is no longer available, my qustion is does the ins. co. owe for the whole house since there is no match available? Also when there are only a few shingles missing, do they owe for a repair or a total replacement? One more question, have any of you guys been able to get your price from the ins co. and not the low ball price that the adjuster gives based on his exatimate estimate that he can get some fly-by-night storm chaser with illegals, to do the work for?


#2

If the adjuster is using Xactimate that is a good thing. Do a good exact estimate and fax to the in house adjuster and you should do ok.

Is there and ice and water code on the roof/area in question? If so check to see how much ice and water is currently on the roof if any. Document it by taking pictures of it if it’s code and not enough.

Wind damage can be tough or easy to get full replacement for, it all depends on the adjuster and the insurance company.


#3

The general rule of thumb for ins. co wind replacement is 20% of roof area.They only pay for total replacement on obsolete material if there is damage to all sides of the roof.Ins. companies are not responsible for code upgrades unless specifically noted in the policy.As far as pricing most ins. companies send out surveys to local companies to come up with pricing usually in march of the yr and will accept price increases i.e. material increases.


#4

Most “good” insurance companies use Xactimate who takes care of finding prices and such. There is a reason why two downloads cost around $1,500 per year. Imagine what the large insurance companies are paying for their services?

If the roofing product is no longer made most insurance companies pay for a total replacement due to wind damage. I’ve done roofs that the “good” and big insurance companies have totalled out with only a few missing tabs on one section of roof. The first thing I look for on roofs that are in question is if the shingles are still made and how much ice and water was used when installed.

Never heard of an insurance company that didn’t pay for something to be done if it’s code.

Here are some examples for wind jobs.

Job#1 three missing tabs of Horizons, insurance paid for the whole roof.

Job#2 several missing tabs of Sealdons only on the front of the roof, not enough ice and water shield, insurance paid for the whole roof.

Job#3 four missing New Horizon shingles but prior blow offs and repairs, enough ice and water shield, insurance paid for the whole roof.

Job#4 tree fell on two layer roof with no ice and water and damaged 5 shingles, insurance paid for the whole roof.

Job#5 tree fell on two layer roof with no ice and water and put a whole through the decking damaging only two shingles, insurance never got on the roof but paid for hail damage.

Job#6 tree fell on one layer Sealdon black roof scuffing a couple shingles, no hail was found but no replacement match was located, insurance paid for the whole roof.

Here’s one to make you think. Met with an adjuster for an insurance company who totalled a few of the above mentioned roofs. There were tons of roofs being done in the area so figured an adjuster was worth sending out. He looked around and said, “If there was one missing tab I’d pay for the whole roof. See that roof over there and over there?” Yes. “Well I just paid for those roofs, they had wind damage”. All the shingles were Hearthstead. He went on to say the area didn’t have any hail damage although the storm chasers told the home owners they did.

All these roofs were in Minnesota.


#5

Guess I need to move to minn.The code upgrade I mentioned was state farm.In colo,nm,ks,neb I’ve never seen total replacement for less than 20% of roof area.As for obsolete material down here for hail T-locks were always best bet for full replacement mainly Tamko because in 84 they stopped making metrics and changed standards from 19-3/4 to 20.5.
The funny thing about state farm is down here they won’t pay for code upgrade but they will pay for 2-3 layer re decks.


#6

#2 and #4 were State Farm.

I like State Farm a lot. Can’t recall the last job we didn’t meet eye to eye on. As a matter of fact on the last claim we worked they said they were only going to pay for half the roof until an adjuster totaled out the front. The other day got a call from S.F. and they said they were going to replace the whole roof and wanted my estimate. Tried beating around the bush but finally realized they were buying the entire roof without another adjuster looking at it.


#7

I’m gonna quote a “salesman” who’s worked with adjuster more than most storm chasers. “Kill them with kindness”.

Being nice goes a long way.


#8

I have always liked state farm,they pay better.I’ve always found adjusters very by region.

After leaving Tremco I stayed in NM last yr.The city next to where I was living had a tornado with hail.I had a friend @ the company where I was working get his roof totaled by farmers bar-tile maybe 6 pcs broken $24,000 roof go figure.

Most of the roofs I looked @ last yr wouldn’t have been totaled in colo but were.


#9

If a repair is next to impossible the insurance company usually does a total replacement. With old shingles it’s common with light wind damage to warrant a full replacement.

I have a $23.5K wood shake roof do to that S.F. paid on for wind damage. The roof is 30 years old.

With adjuster you get the good and the bad. A regional manager for one of the biggest insurance companies in the nation said it well. "You’ve been on roofs with no hail damage that an adjuster approved right? Yup. You’ve been on roofs that have obvious hail damage that an adjuster didn’t approve right? Yup. It all really falls upon the adjusters judgement.

I think not every one gets a roof after a hail storm even if the roof has hail damage. I also think that according to some insurance companies if the home owner thinks they have hail damage than they have hail damage. Usually it’s these jobs that they pay whatever the roofer charges, with no questions asked.

Last year I did quite a few roofs that either adjusters or insurance agents got me. Right now about 1/3 of my tear offs ready for this Spring were gotten this way.

I’ve learned to watch what I say to home owners for the fact that not all insurance companies operate the same way or adjusters for that matter. Saying should rather that will is the safe bet.

My favorite insurance company is American Family Insurance. They insure everything but my roofing liability policy, they came in about double what I pay. State Farm is a close second and I would recommend them to anybody with second rate insurance. Am Fam on average pays my estimates to a t while S.F. we have to negotiate most estimates.


#10

Looking back a couple years ago when I first started doing insurance work it was on average tough getting the insurance companies to pay my prices. It was like they said, “Wait a minute now, you want top dollar and who are you?”. After a few jobs were done they seemed better to pay what I wanted more often.

Last Fall had a roof approved by State Farm and we had the roof done within a couple weeks. Two weeks after the roof was done the home owner told me two adjusters were up on the roof taking pictures. When talking with the in house adjuster asked what the adjusters were doing and it was a random check to check up on the adjuster to make sure he or she stills knows how to use a tape measure. The adjuster on the phone commented on how nice the roof looked which was nice to hear.

My father had his roof approved by State Farm back in 06. The adjuster came up with $15.5K for replacement. Last Summer an adjuster came unanounced and asked if he could re inspect the roof at which time my grandma told them to leave. Late last Fall we finally got a chance to do the roof and after it was done we sent an estimate for $19.5K. State Farm actually sent out another adjuster to look things over! In the past 150+ insurance jobs this was only the second time this has happened. The adjuster asked what shingles were on the roof and we told him Horizons and he said that they were actually going to pay for 30 year laminate rather than 3 tabs (we installed 30 year laminates anyways). He also figured the roof to be a 9.5/12 so he bumped it up from a 7-9/12 to a 10-12/12. The new estimate was for $20.4K and they paid it right down to a cent. The estimate they sent my father said PER BID on all the line items which I’d never seen before.

State Farm gives the home owners 2 years to do the work. American Family gives you 1 year. I’ve got home owners that made a claim right before the deadline to file and their waiting the full 2 years for me to do their roof. That being said some are waiting as long as 4 years to have their roofs done after the date of loss. It gives time for all the storm chasers to move through and when all the neighbors have 3-4 year old roofs they have brand new roofs.


#11

Line item is commonplace down here ks has been that way for at least 15 yrs.My father had a co in wichita ks yrs ago and had sf come to him and ask him to help set the boundaries for a hail storm since he had been in business for yrs and had an excellent reputation so he went around and looked @ roofs with the adjusters you know how it is one house will be totaled the one across the street will have little to no damage for doing this he got a 450 sq nursing home w/o a mark on it.

The reason they don’t send out more than one adjuster is that they work by the pc if you have problem with an adjuster and ask for a re-inspection if the original adjuster doesn’t come back and they send someone else they have to split the money for that house.They probably were concerned about his performance.

American family in colo is one of the worst however in Nebraska there the best,Kansas there average.

In denver you don’t see un-repairable roofs to often we have hail nearly every yr in one suburb or another.The argument my father always used for shake damage due to hail was that you might not see enough splits initially was that the impact still did damage and that if you looked at it the following yr you would have considerably more damage.


#12

I ran out of room.
CO KS NM NE the homeowner has 5 yrs to claim wind or hail damage it was my understanding this applied nationwide.I pinned down an adjuster on this once he reluctantly admitted it he said they had to have a good reason for waiting so long.Once the claim has been made down here they usually have 1 yr to have it done,but if they have a signed contract they’ll give them an extension.


#13

Thanks for the replies, I will have to use the advise a little mor than I had anticipated as a city a little south of me has been heavily damaged by that line of tornados two nights ago…, OH BOY here we go again, the “local” companies coming out of the woodwork with out of state tags and a boatload of illegals.


#14

I’ll give you a little help,when speaking to a customer tell them to look in a 2-3 yr old phone book to see who is local.Hope this helps.