Closed cut valley?


#1

Hi All, Once my wife picks a color I plan to start shingling. 25 years ago I used a woven valley with 3 tabs, this time I want to do a closed cut valley with 30 year Timberlines or Landmarks. I understand the part about doing the low pitched or smaller side first so that it goes below and cutting the steeper side but what I’m trying to figure out is the best way to stagger the joints. If I start at the gable end of the roof some joints are likely to fall in the valley so I was thinking it might be best to start at the valley and run backward out of it to keep the joints out of the valley? Depending on the pitch this would create a different offset between the shingle rows than the standard cut off one tab less for each row? Starting at the valley would leave a random width cut off at the gable end, would this be a problem? What is the best way to layout the shingle joints in a valley?
Regards, DaveB


#2

Start at the gable end and shingle towards the valley.
Some shingles will end close to the valley so keep the nail back and slide a scrap piece up under it.


#3

I always started in the valley and worked my way away unless there is a reverse gable that does not go to the ridge. The shingle wrapper will explain in detail how to do the closed valley. Just do not cut too deep.


#4

[quote=“Krakkerjak”]Start at the gable end and shingle towards the valley.
Some shingles will end close to the valley so keep the nail back and slide a scrap piece up under it.[/quote]

Are you talking about dutch-lapping your shingles?


#5

You shingle out of the valley on the low side

and you shingle to the valley on the high side.

THese are not rules and they are broken depending on whether you are right handed or left handed.

Whats truly important is exactly where the seams are
in the valley.

daveb, you have a PM.


#6

If seams end in valley,you trim back accordingly.I use the 12" rule,no seam within 12" of valley and at least 12" over the valley.


#7

Hi John, So if I start at the gable end and approach the valley I should cut the shingle immediately before the valley so that the joints in the valley shingle fall no less than 12 inches from the valley on either side? And I want to maintain at least a 6 inch stagger in any joints between the rows? Depending on the pitch of the two joining roofs the amount of cutoff will vary?
Is there any thing I should watch for in the cutting process to make the overall pattern look better? Such as maintaining minimum widths of remaining tabs at cut position ,etc?
Regards, DaveB


#8

All you have to be careful of is where the course above the one you cut will land.If you cut off 6" for example,the next course would then line up,so you would cut off say 12".Always keep your 45 or your step going.I hope that helps


#9

Dave - If you start if the valley you will save yourself alot of head scratching.


#10

stair step them up the valley, throw one back every 8’
or so.
make shure you step them atleast 8"s and youll be just fine.
if a joint falls in the valley it will be allrite.
ive ran across many joints in the valley over the years, none of them ever causing a leak.
just made me forget were i put my knife.

gweedo.


#11

You can go pretty crooked if you bring too many courses up the valley at once.Bring up 3-4 courses and bring them across to the gable.I prefer working left to right,to each their own.Never have a joint in the valley.


#12

Hi RooferR, I was thinking I could start each course with the valley shingle spanning the valley to eliminate any joints in the valley but then I got to wondering how to do the gable end. Should I adjust the width of the last couple of shingles so I don’t end up with a narrow piece at the end? I guess it might work out ok by accident most of the time?
It is very interesting to hear how experienced roofers handle these details. Thanks to all who have posted.
Regards, DaveB


#13

Use the 6"rule at the gables.Cut back accordingly as I described before,always thinking ahead about where the next course lands.Watch your nail pattern


#14

[quote=“gweedo”]throw one back every 8’
or so.
[/quote]

Hi Gweedo, I’m sure the pros know what “throw one back every 8 ’ or so” means but I’m stumped?

Regards DaveB


#15

I do it the way Gweedo describes.

Run the stagger up the valley.
This is the same theory as doing a straight gable roof, except you are starting at the valley.
When the joints start to get too close to the valley you “step it back” and start over so to speak.
I am finding it hard to put this simple process into words, but I will try…

Let’s start with a simple gable roof, a garage…
To start you have to have a stagger, this is in the package instructions.
These staggers vary among brands so I will use Certainteed’s stagger, since it is what I push…

Certainteed says to start with a full length starter (38 3/4").***
The first shingle (course) has 5 5/8" cut off of it.
The second shingle (course) has 11 1/4" cut off of it.
The third shingle (course) is the 11 1/4" piece that you cut off the second course.
The fourth shingle (course) is the 5 5/8" piece you cut off the first course.
After this you repeat the above.
This is your stagger.

When you get to the other end of the roof you will have to cut off the shingles at the edge.
This will leave some left over pieces.
You will quickly notice that these leftover pieces create a stagger if you choose to use them that way…
Meaning, they will be of uniform length repeating themselves consistently up the roof.
Depending upon the length of the roof you may have an oddball that is unusable (too short).

I hope I described that clearly.

Now when you start in the valley it is the same thing, except that instead of having a clean edge you will be running the closed side up the other plane of the roof.
In the case of the cut side you will be cutting it.
In either case when you come to the gable end you will be cutting it.
This will leave a uniform stagger with the cut off pieces.
They most likely won’t be the specified stagger lengths but they will be somewhat uniform in length nonetheless.
Two of these pieces will be waste, the rest can be used.

When you are cutting the gable end every 5th course will be really close to the edge (0"-5").
This is where you put the leftover pieces to use.
You will have 5 leftover pieces of which the 2 smallest will be thrown away, so you effectively have 3…
For simplicity we will say these pieces are 33", 27", and 11".
When you come to the point where you have to put in a 0"-5" piece you will take the 27" leftover piece and use that instead of a full shingle, you will then use a full shingle.
For the next course you will use the 11" piece as a spacer then a full shingle.
For the next course you will use the 33" piece and it should fit.
Actual lengths will vary but the pattern will remain the same.
Be sure to overhang the shingle by 1/2" - 3/4".

When you are running a stagger up a valley you will usually need to “step it back” every so often (depending upon the pitch).
This is to keep your joints away from the valley.
Joints belong in your mouth not in your valley…:mrgreen:

*** Actually that is not what they say, they say to start with a metric 3-tab and cut off the exposure.
I find this very interesting since they don’t sell a metric 3-tab in my area at all…
What we do is cut the exposure off of the Landmark shingles and use that as a starter.
If they are big enough we will use the cut off portion at the ridge.
The Certainteed starters that are available to me are standard size and are not tall enough to be used as starters.

I found it very difficult to explain this very simple process, I hope it was easily understood.
This method will cut your waste down dramatically.


#16

[quote="-Axiom-"]
I found it very difficult to explain this very simple process, I hope it was easily understood.
This method will cut your waste down dramatically.[/quote]

Perfect description, Thanks Axiom. "Throw one back" means adjust the joints so they stay out of the valley :>)   I'm looking forward to getting the material on the roof and seeing how it all comes together.
      Regards, DaveB