Certification


#1

I recently had a salesman tell me he could get me MASTER ELITE cert. for no up front fee…He said his co. would pay for it to earn my buisiness. I spent 10,000.00 per mo. for 4 mo. Never heard of it again! I just switched suppliers,and the new salesman said the same thing,but he called the GAF/ELK rep while standing in front of me. This salesman I know from dealing w/ a local lumber yard. He left them to go to a shingle supplier. He seems on the up and up,but I don’t know that it will increase the quantity of jobs,or raise my profits… Any feedback would be apreciated…He has a rep. coming to my job to meet w/me next week… I already sell my customers an intagrated roof as in I use all the GAF/ELK products required to meet the high level warranty,only offered by Master Elite contractors,and I offer my lifetime workmanship warranty. As in if there is ever a problem of any kind I will return to deal w/manufacturers or repair…I have never had a call back, except to do more work…Also can you sell these higher level warranties easily? Do the tools that GAF/ELK offer help your call volume? Sorry so long…


#2

Is this the same guy that said

“I resent the statement of the guy who says that they drive new trucks and have all the certs. and they are all that, and then some . . .ALL THE ILLEGALS IN MY AREA DRIVE 07 and NEWER trucks with all new ladders,power ladders, aluminum planks and so on W/ MASTER ELITE on the side of the truck…and as they drive away,the breeze from their new truck blows the new shingles that they HIGH NAILED right off…lol”

Seems like the pot calling the kettle black right there, Looks like you have had a change of heart, how come?


#3

“I never had a call back”

Sure, ok Pinocchio


#4

RooferJ, who are you quoting when you say that?


#5

They are sales tools, nothing more.


#6

I agree, sales tools.

In MN we have not only been hit with a lot of hails storms but have also been hit with some 70-80 mph wind recently. I see a lot more GAF and ELK laminates blowing off than say CT Landmarks.

A lot with a few blow offs were done in 06 or 07 and some are getting new roofs again due to wind damage and being unable to get the same shingles.

Have yet to have a call on wind damage from a Landmark since they put the tar on the bottom of the shingle, hundreds of roofs.

What makes the new GAF/ELK better than the old GAF or ELK laminates?


#7

Well Doug…The tar is on the bottom, and if they are properly nailed…I belive that any shingle will stand up to high winds…I have yet to rip off a roof,that the previous installer had nailed even 1/10 of the shingles properly…ALL HIGH NAILED…AS YOU COULD PROBABLY SAY ABOUT ALL THE ONES THAT YOU SAY ARE BLOWIN OFF…I will say it again…IF EVERY SHINGLE IS NAILED ON THE LINE…THEY WILL NOT BLOW OFF!..Also I HAVE NEVER HAD A CALL BACK! I know what experience shows me about blow offs,and other companies problems…I am called sometimes when no 1 else can seem to figure out why it still leaks…Well when you replace a roof and do not change step flashings,and reuse drip edge,ridge vent,and old skylites,and caulk old wood boards that were used for counter flashings,that are all rotten and covered w/tar now…how can you expect it not to leak…These are just a few of the things that I have seen in my area…ALSO TELLING THE OWNER THAT THE CHIMNEY CAP IS IN NEED OF REPLACEMENT!..


#8

I just remember you saying that everyone who has Master Elite on the side of their truck is a hack and is all illegals and so fourth but then you are wanting to go get it for yourself for the same reason those guys have it, to hopefully get more business. What are you going to do when you tell someone you have that elite status but someone like you was already there and told that homeowner to stay away from anyone with that on their truck because of the bad experiences with them? Around here, there is only one company with that status that has a good reputation. The rest are better to stay away from. We dont have or really want the Master Elite staus because of its price and the fact that most people who are looking for roofs have already been told about those sort of companies.


#9

I forgot, I know what youre saying about blowoffs and we are in the same boat on that one. I was just saying that you said all of the Master Elite contractors are known for doing poor quality work and nailing high and so fourth. Even if you dont do that, which im sure you dont, how could you make it different when people have already heard about the contactors who have that status and want to stay away? I am sure you have told someone that wanted a roof that it probably isnt in their best interest to to have someone like that do it. Maybe you should look into the Certified Weather Stopper status. Like I told you before, it can bring peace of mind to some homeowners.


#10

I’m sure the GAF/ELK, or GAF, ELK laminate roofs that I have seen with blow offs were nailed too high. My guess is since the shingles were not properly installed the wind warranty would be void?

I have to say I actually like the old GAF and ELK laminates. Since they don’t make them anymore insurance has been paying full replacement for light wind or hail damage. Found six total hits and one missing shingle on a GAF Timberline 47sq garage roof done a year in a half ago. Pulled a shingle, sent it in and came back no longer made, full replacement.

We are a Certainteed Select company. Although we can nail in a much larger nail area than the competition all my installers nail in the double laminate section.

I have heard it’s $7,500 for the GAF Master Elite program.


#11

You cant just get master elite…you have to work through the farm league…fist Authorized, then Certified, then master elite. min. of 3rd year. Cost is $7000. Yes it is basically marketing tools. All they are is “tools” if you dont know how to properly use them…well then dont bother.

On a side note…if you have never had a call back, then you must be a rookie. Granted callbacks are a huge headache that we all try to avoid, but you learn from your mistakes…and nobodies perfect.


#12

Never had a call back?

–Changed my phone number after I got the contract signed…LOL

Master Elite is a good program. Its kind of neat to offer better warranties and have the claim to fame that “I am a factory certified contractor”. Its also handy to go online and order free literature, folders, and other types of stuff. Also Golden Pledge inspections are posted on the website along with pictures of the inspection process.

Elk shingles were some of the first to put the seal strip on the bottom of the shingle.

70-80 mile per hour winds shouldnt blow off a dimensional shingle ever–it must have been nailed improperly.


#13

Thanks Mayniac…I was waiting for someone to achnoledge the high nailing thing…I am no rookie…I am 39, and have been in roofing siding and const since 16…self employed since 17… strictly roofing again for 3 years…1 a week by myself, and I have a great rep. for doing the right thing… I offer a contractors warranty now…and would like to offer the type of warranty that cert can… Also I do not bad mouth the comp…to customers,they do that amongst themselves…lol.Anyway the no callback thing is the ego and pride…I take the time to do it right while I am there,NOT THAT I DON"T MAKE ANY MISTAKES…BUt I correct them as I go along…so I don’t have to fix It later… WEll over 100 roofs with no problems…Also my prices are going up as my reputation gets better…I am more than 100.00 per sq. more this year than last year…


#14

Its always good to hear about people charging more.


#15

You must have taken a lot of time off from roofing. If you have roofed for 23 years and do a roof a week you should have done 1,196 roofs by now and not just 100. If you would have done 1,196 I would venture to say you would have had a call back by now.

I’m impressed that your are doing whole roofs by yourself, that is sweet. Been there done that, can only make so much. As a matter of fact haven’t done many tear offs solo but have done hundreds of new roofs solo.

Back in the 90’s my fathers roofing company did about 600 roofs per year and he had some call backs!!!

My most common call back on new roofs are either the heating guys trying to install the heat pipe jacks or subs backing into the roof. Of course there is a service charge if it’s not my fault for the repair.

Sort of funny, had a female adjuster today loose control of her tape and it fell on the home owners Yukon!!! He heard the bang went over to it and shook his head. She ended up making him happy though by buying his roof and 21 of his windows.


#16

You will get burned out if you try to do everything yourself. in the Roofing trade you need to have a competent crew and get a crew leader you knows how you want it done. Then you can try to work on your business rather than in your business. Getting certified in different roofing products is neat and can be a nice card to have in your deck as they say but at the end of the day it comes down to $$. Remember that if you type in CAPS people tend to think that you might be a jerk.


#17

Sorry for caps…I took a 12 yr vacation from roofing to frame houses…I have been back at it for almost 4 years again… I have found that I would rather do it all myself than deal with hiring yoyos to possibly cause me more grief…also that is how I avoid any call backs…If you pull every nail,and put every nail in …then you know that it is right…also I have not done a new house,or subbed from anyone in 3 years…


#18

Most all call backs are not for our own leaks . If you roof long enough you will get them. Its all in how you handle it and being prompt. Chimnys can leak, as can sidewalls. I had a call back that was a plumbing leak and another was a window that they never took out there air conditioner and water blew right in.Have seen it all.


#19

I did a roof a couple years ago for a guy who owned a siding and gutter business for 40 years. He said he never had a call back but told me later if he had a call back he would have one of his sons out to the house first thing the next day or if the call came in over the weekend first thing Monday morning.

One call back was 14 years after the gutters were installed. The home owner called and complained to the owners wife. Upon inspection of the gutters it would determined the gutters had never been cleaned causing leaking as a result of tree growth. The owner said to the woman that she was out of line for calling and yelling at his wife for her negligance.

The other day handed my reference list to a home owner and the next time we spoke he said he knew the guy mentioned above. First time that’s happened. Pretty sure that will get that job.