Calculating Waste


#42

I would love a copy too… The most up to date version if you would please… bbbjobs @ usa . com … <---- please remove spaces… God Bless, J><>


#43

Can you pls send me that spread sheet. Iamloribradshaw@gmail.com
Thanks so much.


#44

Please send a copy of your spreadsheet to: mongorago@gmail.com

Thanks for your insight


#45

I would like a copy of your working spread sheet brad@firstbuilders.net
I think your spot on and would like to network with you I have some interesting info


#46

Could you please send me your spreadsheet at tashafahey@gmail.com? I have this same argument over and over and over and over again, especially with State Farm on their so called 15% is enough for a good roofer to do the job. I too get the “you are the only roofing company that request this supplement from us”. It’s so frustrating!! Meanwhile, most homeowners do not understand the battle between roofers and adjusters who have their own inconsistent opinions.


#47

It must be a geographic thing.
We have replaced over 500 residential roofs over the last couple of years.
Sure, every now and then we run a couple of bundles shy.
Usually we have a bundle to leave in the garage.


#48

Hey,
I am new to the site and love what your talking about here! I’m learning so much about marketing my small buisness as well as learning different tactics to deal with adjusters. A question I do have though is this: how important is it to become HAAG certified now? The industry seems to be trending towards the certification becoming a requirement to even help homeowners deal with insurance companies here in Alberta.

 Also Authentic Dad, I would love a sample of your waste calculation spread sheet. I typically account for 10-20% waste depending on how cut up the roof lines are. I strongly feel that a different approach will help my bottom line and enable me to provide tighter estimates. Thanks for all of the help already!

#49

I left out my email…
Nbhroofing@gmail.com
Thanks


#50

Since I posted in 2011 have seen more insurance companies go to the ridge included in waste factor unless the ridge is the high profile. One big carrier in my area still pay ridge on 3 tabs and also pay drip edge on all roofs.

Still feel a 10 or even 15% waste factor on a 50+sq roof is typically sufficient. The most waste is with a closed valley on a roof with a lot of valleys.

Think about how many squares over the years the insurance company paid to install that were not installed. Some roofs we use 3-5sq less than the paid squares.


#51

The actual size of the roof has absolutely nothing to do with the waste. The waste is dependent upon the geometry. I will agree that most (not all) larger roofs has lower waste. That’s because they often have large slopes with minimal roof penetrations, dormers, etc. that have very low waste, close to nothing. The worst roofs for waste are most often the 26 to 35 square 12:12 hip roofs that are designed to make the house look incredibly fancy. So they have lots of slopes, lots of dormers, lots of extensions which all means lots of valley and more starter than if the roof were simply a square/rectangle.

Here’s the bottom line. Mathematically, the only time the waste for a gable is 10% and for a hip is 15%, with bundling in starter and cap, is when those are 2 slopes and 4 slopes respectively. This can easily be proven using Xactimate sketch.

More importantly, people should realize the Xactimate rate for ridge cap is more than twice what it is for field shingles. By attempting to bundle cap into field shingle waste, the insurance companies are saving themselves several hundred to a thousand dollars per roof. Again, that is fact and easily proven if you drill down into the Xactimate pricing. I wish this site had some improved capabilities for posting images and I would gladly show all this.


#52

any chance to send a copy of your spreadsheet to privusdesigngroup@gmail.com ? This will help!!! Thank you :slight_smile:


#53

Read my post about using Xactimate Autocalc. Same results as my waste spread sheet and you can now tell the Insurance that it comes from Xactimate instead of from you.


#54

Use Imgur.com to post pictures.

I rarely reach 10% waste on any roof, but I do things a bit differently than most I suspect.

Pretty much everything I do is a cut up pig.


#55

Good to see ya again Authentic Dad


#56

New to this forum, seeking information about the manufacturers warranty regarding the use of 3 tab shingles vs. using the ridge cap singles designed for that use.

With the ridge cap being the most stressed portion of the roof, I cannot see why it’s even acceptable to bend a 3 tab shingle to be utilized in a function for which it was not designed and expect the product manufacturer to stand behind it.

Also: I believe there to be an issue with replacing with like kind and quality. If they had materials designed to be a ridge cap before, why wouldn’t the policy owe to put back what they had?

I’m an estimator and project manager that frequently runs into the vendor program adjuster who says “ridge cap is not permitted, use the waste from the 3 tab shingles”. While I site that is not a best practice, and may be subject to voiding the warranty, I’d like to obtain some factual information source material to reference that actually backs up what I’m saying. Otherwise whenever I’m called on my statement, it becomes my opinion vs. theirs. And the insurance company’s recourse at that point is, my opinion is flawed and we choose to participate on their program, etc., etc. [you know that business decision thing “you don’t have to do our work, because we can always find someone else who doesn’t know their cost of doing business, etc”].

I prefer not to have an us vs. them mentality, but rather put my energy into educating adjusters, and their managers as to why it’s not a good idea to cut a corner. One of which is simply the insurance co. has sold the program to their policyholders which often comes with a all encompassing warranty that usually greatly exceeds what a homeowner could get using a contractor not on their program.

That’s fine, however I have a big issue with an insurance company offering up a rich warranty [which the insurance co. just passes onto the contractor] while “not permitting” a best practice, or at least a standard of care.

As a general contractor who does insurance work, much of through various vendor programs, I can say that most adjusters are agreeable to whatever I propose provided I can provide supporting reasons to back up what I need. This is so they can support and back up their decisions [approvals] to their supervisors.

It takes some work on my part to do so, but I’m successful 80% of the time. In part it’s helpful to provide proof that our file is well documented [often in their own system, which then becomes a permanent record], that what they are instructing me to do isn’t really a good idea.


#57

Why don’t you simply look in the manufacturers installation guide? Insurance isn’t responsible for best practices. They’re responsible to replace with like kind and quality unless there is the ordinance of law option or some other rider in the policy. If the existing roof has specialty hip and ridge, they’re obligated to replace it with hip and ridge. Residential building code does not require specialty hip and ridge. It does require that manufacturer installation guidelines be adhered to. Unfortunately for your argument, manufacturers installation guides do not require specialty hip and ridge except for higher end singles such as lifetime and designer.

Your real argument for ridge cap as a separate line item should be labor rate. The xactimate cost for ridge cap as s line item is more than double that of field singles. That is why cap should not be allowed to be bundled into waste and paid for at a lower rate. Drill down into the xactimate pricing and you can easily figure that out and present it.


#58

While on the surface that generally appears to be true, there’s an argument to be made that when the insurance company “sells” the repair program [and contractor who in this case becomes a vendor] to their policy holder and backs up the repair with an extended warranty that by contract that often supersedes State and Municipal contracting requirements, they in essence have become a party to the consumer services being provided by the vendor, and are just as responsible for the work practices.

I’m sure they hope to avoid that connection through their use of a third party that actually manages the program, yet to be legally challenged. Perhaps it already has been, and I’m not aware.

I’ll do more research on that.


#59

Hi , This is Ken with American Roofing, I am interested in your sheet . Please send to americanroofing@comcast.net Thanks !


#60

Hi AD I really appreciate the info you post, and questions you pose! Would you please send the spreadsheet to me? Also I saw links to formulas from a couple years ago that no longer work. If it’s not too much trouble could you send those too, or post updated link? Always better to have more bullets with adjusters!!! Thanks again
shingleco@hotmail.com or shingleco@gmail.com


#61

I’m not a paid consultant nor do I have the time to reply to each of these requests individually. Whenever I get some time, I’m going to try to put some things I have into a Dropbox folder and then post a link.