Calculating Waste


#21

AD that is some good info.
WOW… Its hard for the adjuster to say no with that kind of documentation. I was not even aware to the job related overhead. Would that be 10%?


#22

Authentic_Dad,

I would greatly appreciate a copy of the formulas and an explanation on using them. I am currently in a dispute over shingle count with an adjuster. I appreciate any help.


#23
  1. Do you agree with using 78 LF per bundle of 3 tab shingles to calculate starter?** No, Starters are starters and if they disagree have them show you in the Manufacturers Installation Instructions.**

  2. Do you agree with using 28 LF per bundle of 3 tab shingles for ridge cap?
    **Standard 3 tabs, 26 shingles to a bundle with 3 caps per shingle (78 caps x 5" = 32.5 ft) 30 FT
    Metric 3 tabs 21 shingles in a bundle with 3 tabs per shingle (63 caps x 5.5" = 28.5 ft.) 25 FT
    **

  3. Because of the “under layer” in valleys, I useO the figure of requiring 2 additional shingles for every 3 LF of valley? What would you guesstimate the waste is with valleys?
    **The realistic truth in valleys is 1/2 a shingle per side so we add (on metric) 40" x height of valley). One might stretch this height to the length to sneak a few added shingles in there.
    **

  4. On the average, when replacing a 3 tab roof, what percentage of the tabs needed for the ridge cap are recoverable from the scrap … for a gable? … for a hip? **A percentage is never really fair, if you want real numbers you need to count shingles. No matter what the roof width is I alway add shingle length to the length, and if it is a hip then the depth too.
    **

  5. If you take out starter and hip & ridge cap from the waste factor, what % do you think would be applicable for the remaining waste (to cover valley and scrap)? … for a gable? …for a hip?
    **When 3 Tabs were King, the same principle applies, only we added 2 tabs ( 2’ ) to the ends and across the ridge for starters measured additional course. Caps were a bundle per 30’.
    **
    Thanks.


#24

[quote=“828br”]AD that is some good info.
WOW… Its hard for the adjuster to say no with that kind of documentation. I was not even aware to the job related overhead. Would that be 10%?[/quote]

It is great info however, I have had many adjusters ignore the documentation. The adjusters have been taught to do things one way and are repremanded if they go outside of their little perfect world. They are in fact stealing from homeowners and fellow contractors alike.


#25

AD thanks for opening this discussion.Just goes to prove even the best keep learning.
The info on this post is tremendous and VERY professional.We HAVE to get paid correctly or risk going out of business.I’ve seen a good sized local roofing company without good insurance knowledge shoot both their feet.


#26

To those who have sent me private messages: For whatever reason, it appears that my replies to your messages aren’t going through. When you send me a request to send you the Excel spread sheet, please include your email address and I will send it to you.


#27

AD,

I havent recieved the spreadsheets, not complaining. I was wondering if I can have your permission to copy your report and submit it to the adjustor. I hate to ask, but the window of opportunity is closing and I have to be timely with my supplement/argument. Also if ok, I may insert my numbers in place of yours in the calculations. Thanks


#28

Authentic Dad. I just registered to this site so I could learn more about proper and actual waste factors. Can you email me the excel sheet and pages that go along with it? marqueswhite at gmail This site won’t let me email you directly yet since I’m new. Thank you!


#29

Sent.


#30

Authentic_Dad,

Please send me a copy of this spreadsheet as well.

Please send to:
coug78 at yahoo

Thanks!


#31

Sent


#32

Hi,
Please send copy to ejkelleyjr at gmail
Thanks,
Zen :smiley:


#33

Authentic, on a separate forum you posted that you have a fact based mathematical analysis spread sheet. Can you tell me where to find something like this?


#34

Donny, if I were an A-hole, I’d tell you to get it from your hero CC. Provide me with your email and I will send you a copy. You will need Excel.


#35

[quote=“Authentic_Dad”]Perhaps it is my fault, and likely is, that I’m not getting my questions answered. They were buried too deeply in all the description. I’d appreciate some feedback on these questions though:

  1. Do you agree with using 78 LF per bundle of 3 tab shingles to calculate starter? [size=150]75’ but your method is flawed. I bill for starter and then have it available on the invoice. XACTIMATE, I explain, tells you XACTLY what a line item pays for under the item info note. NO WHERE does it say starter is included. When adjusters tell me that it is included in the waste I ask for documentation or proof the same way they ask you. They have nothing. These adjusters just do what they are told and they are all told something different. [/size]

  2. Do you agree with using 28 LF per bundle of 3 tab shingles for ridge cap? [size=150]33[/size]

  3. Because of the “under layer” in valleys, I use the figure of requiring 2 additional shingles for every 3 LF of valley? What would you guesstimate the waste is with valleys? [size=150]I argue[/size] that the shingle manufacture asks for a 18" underlayment of the base course and no nails within 6" of the center line resulting in a 18" average overlap of the top course that’s then cut away. so that every row of shingles wastes 36x5" of material (180 sq inches) a square is 14,400 square inches so that you get 80 rows of valley out of a square of shingles, so 80x5=400/12 = 33.3 feet of valley per square. its a little heavy and a decent crew will get more but its easy to explain and sound like you know what your talking about. You have to shoot high because you will only win half your battles so you need to win enough to justify the fight on the ones you loose. I can get state farm to pay for one and then on a statefarm claim on the same street get a different desk adjuster and get no where

  4. On the average, when replacing a 3 tab roof, what percentage of the tabs needed for the ridge cap are recoverable from the scrap … for a gable? … for a hip? [size=150]If you watch your amigos close enough to make them do this you are leaving a lot of money on the table with the time you could be knocking the neighbors.[/size]

  5. If you take out starter and hip & ridge cap from the waste factor, what % do you think would be applicable for the remaining waste (to cover valley and scrap)? … for a gable? …for a hip? [size=150]Shoot for the moon, justify it with math. Order a $30 eagle view on everything to help, don’t flip out when you get cock blocked unless your only doing a few jobs a week. Just keep shooting for the moon [/size]
    Thanks.[/quote]

Allstate I can always get for the caps and to add 5% waste to whatever garbage they send out.

There comes a point where unless you have someone super sharp on the phones willing to sit there and sell adjusters on paying you all day that its best to not put an enormous amount of your own time into these. Too easy to go make 40% than keep bashing your head into the wall chasing 2%.

Find a good balance I guess


#36

I routinely add 20% to 100% to our jobs with supplementing. I agree, if you’re only getting 2%, you’re wasting your time but it is because you’re not doing it correctly.


#37

CC has a fan club? Awesome…


#38

The way I was taught…

30’ per bundle for ridge
100’ per bundle for starter
2 to 6 sqs of waste for the field shingles, depending on complexity of the system. Just learn after ordering so many roofs.

One question though…I thought it would void the manufacturers warranty if you use 3 tab for starter and not starter strips?


#39

Was looking for your Supplement Hints & estimating diagrams. Been down for a while and just getting back in. Thanks D


#40

Hi Dad,

When I pay my subs I use this formula since this is the method I use to calculate my estimate

Actual squares plus 5% for gable, 7% for 6 hipper, and 10% for cut up… then I add the following

3 bundles of 3 tab = 1 square for starter or if using switstart etc I give 1 square for every 180 feet

I give 1 square for every 90 feet of standard cap or 60 feet of high profile

We use open valleys here so I do not have a calc for woven

Ken