Actual cost of roof was double the estimate


#1

I just received the final bill for my roof and it is double what the estimate was.

When the estimate was given it was for a 2 layer tearoff. He said that if there are 3 layers or any wood damage the price would increase.

There were 3 layers but no wood damage. So I expected an adjustment to the total.

The bill he left had everything broken down and it all adds up but it is double the estimate. How can an experienced roofer (he came highly recommended) make a mistake like this?

Any advice is appreciated?


#2

Well theres no way the price should have doubled.He should have discussed the increase with you.


#3

Was there a mention in the original contract how much the cost would go up in the event that there was any additional layers that were not initially observed?

Did he meet with you and inform you of the additional layer during the time that it was first discovered>

I am presuming he did, from your comment, but did you agree for them to do the additional layer of tear-off work required to complete the project properly?

It is critical, that you be made aware of how much the additional fee would be, either before hand in the contract or while the work was under way and agreed to by you. Did you sign any extra change order for the additional tear-off work and did it state how much it was now going to add to the total price?

Personally, double sounds extremely high, but somewheres in the 25% of the total range would not seem out of line at all.

Was there ANY additional work at all, besides the additional layer of tear-off, such as new sheet metal flashings required or anything at all?

Ed


#4

Unless you are forgetting to mention something, there is no way it should be double.

I would ask him for a breakdown of costs for the original contract, and one for the final bill. This way you might can figure out where he screwed up his bid, because he is obviously trying to make up for a miscalculation. T&M (time & material) work should be spelled out in the contract, if not, then you may need a consultant or even an attorney to bring him back down to earth. Being a consultant myself, you may want to try that route first, since most roofers have come to realize that a good consultant can’t be buffaloed.


#5

Ted,

He started the roof a day ahead of time and I was at work. When I got home he informed me of the 3rd layer, he didn’t give me a price nor did I ask. About half the roof was down to wood at this point.

There was no additional work done other than the 3rd layer tearoff.

Yesterday when I came home sitting in my backdoor was a clipboard with three bills for me to pay, one to the disposal company for the dumpster, one to the supplier for the materials and one to the roofer for labor. This was not agreed on at all and nothing like that was stated in the estimate. I have never had to write more than one check to any contractor that has done work for me.

My husband also felt a 25% increase would be reasonable.

Thanks for your opinion.


#6

I do feel he made a miscalculation and rather than talking to us about it he just submitted a higher bill.

When my husband talked to him he kept saying a 3 layer tearoff is more expensive than a 2 layer which we realize and asked him to add that extra cost to his original proposal.

Somewhere on this board a person asked why the estimates aren’t broken down and several contractors said they never write them that way. And if a customer asked for one like that they would walk away from the job.

I know I will never have anything done on my house without an itemized estimate.


#7

Did your contract point out that you would be paying separate for each of the 3 items you were invoiced for?

That is really strange. All of my proposals cover everything that need to be included and if there were to be a surprise unforeseen extra, the home owner would have been contacted unless it was a strong possibility and I had a line item in my original proposal, which defined the additional potential cost in advance.

Even the, I would have given the home owner a call, just out of courtesy sake, if for no other reason.

Besides what Cerebrus suggested, you NEED to sit down with this contractor and figure this out. You can not make a negotiated payment with just him now, since he has 2 other vendors in the way now.

Call up the material supplier and also the dumpster company and find out f they typically invoice someones roof customer directly or via separate check like this contractor is doing.

Actually, the 25% add on would be “Exactly” what my anticipated additional charge would wind up being, and even then, some might say it was too much, but at least it is agreed upon prior to signing and contracting for the job with both parties signatures and understanding.

Ed


#8

[quote=“nittfa”]

Somewhere on this board a person asked why the estimates aren’t broken down and several contractors said they never write them that way. And if a customer asked for one like that they would walk away from the job.

I know I will never have anything done on my house without an itemized estimate.[/quote]

That is not the type of itemization that was being discussed in the other thread.

Absolutely, the scope of work and potential costs of anything encountered should be mandatory in any contract.

The itemization that was being discussed and debated before, was, how much the felt would cost and how much the nails would cost and how much would the nails cost and so on and so forth for each individual line item.

That does NOT need to be broken out, so long as it is included in the scope of work.

Ed


#9

if you have not paid him then talk to him,
and tell him you think its to much and this is what i want to pay.
they may rant and rave, but theres really nothin they can do.

and ofcourse they didnt show you the 3 different color shingles they tore off did they.

most houses with three roofs on them are 70+ yrs old.
how old is yours?

gweedo.


#10

Ed …His estimate did not state anywhere that I would be getting 3 bills. It just stated that I would pay 1/2 down before the job started and the rest on completion.

I was very surprised to see those additional bills since I’ve never heard of it happening before.

Gweedo …my husband called him and the roofer kept referencing the 3rd layer when asked about doubling his estimate. My husband explained we made our decision based on the estimated amount and had we known it would have been so much higher we would have had to wait to do the job for financial reasons.

My house is 56 yrs old. I am not debating the 3rd layer just the way it increased the total price.

Thanks again for all your help.


#11

Well I would cut him a cheque for original estimate +25%.Tell him it’s criminal and refuse to pay him the additonal 25%.Make sure the suppliers get their share though and get a receipt from them.This guy sounds like he doesn’t do this for a living,I have never heard of business done like that,especially the billing arrangements.


#12

What John just said, but especially due to these circumstances, I would request a Waiver Of Lien from the Shingle Material Supplier, The Dumpster Provider and also the Roofing Contractor you hired before any additional monies exchange hands.

When you do finally agree upon an amount and pay him the agreed upon difference, write Paid In Full on the front memo field of the check.

If you still have concerns as to whether or not the material supplier and the dumpster supplier have been paid, hold that amount back to ensure that they receive their amounts due, until you do receive the Final Waiver Of Lien from them as well.

Ed


#13

This is a problem in my area… The SO CALLED roofer tells the owner to get the permits,dumpster,and the mat…and call him when it is al set up.lol.The real contractor Gets the permits pays for all mat. and disposal of debris. and if his contract said 1/2 up front and 1/2 on final then that is what he is entitled to My customers always know up front the worst case price,for many reasons…For 1, if you need new decking, I am not paying out of pocket for it so if you don’t have the funds then you cannot afford the project at this time. Also I would not spring it on someone way after the fact, I always have the customers contact info for just in case of any unforseen such as an additional layer… I agree that he should get more , but if you already gave him 1/2 up front…that should cover the supplier and the dumpster, unless he gave you a labor price, would explain the DOUBLE COST thing,lol This is the problem with the people I run into that are just looking for a low price…they get hit in the END!


#14

Double the real estimate and 3 different bills. I hope you haven’t paid them yet. They sound like Hacks. 25% increase for the extra tear off would be more than fair.

Phil
roofing7.com/


#15

When you say the estimate is double, do you mean the entire amount(the three invoices added together) or double the price of the labor bill(minus materials and dumpster)?

I would meet with contractor and say this, “I want to arrive at a fair amount for the additional work. Fair to me and fair to you. You had no increased material costs because of the third layer. You had no increased installation time. You may or may not have had increased dump fees. You had to tear off three layers instead of two. I’m not even going to ask why you missed the third layer in your estimate. Help me understand how you arrived at your figure?”

I figured the average increase for me would be 12% of the total of the entire roof, it would be a little more if I had to get another dumpster. My figures represent the actual amount of time it would take to do the work.

Good Luck


#16

[quote=“nittfa”]I just received the final bill for my roof and it is double what the estimate was.

When the estimate was given it was for a 2 layer tearoff. He said that if there are 3 layers or any wood damage the price would increase.

There were 3 layers but no wood damage. So I expected an adjustment to the total.

The bill he left had everything broken down and it all adds up but it is double the estimate. How can an experienced roofer (he came highly recommended) make a mistake like this?

Any advice is appreciated?[/quote]

I get about 3-3 1/2 sq per yard for debris.
What I mean is that a 10 yd trailer will hold 30-35 sq of tear off.
They should be paid for the labor to remove the additional layer, and they should be paid for the added cost to dispose of the debris.
I don’t see how this could double the estimate though.

The 3rd layer wasn’t wood shingles was it?


#17

did he at any point claim to have to resheet. i could see a guy thinking he was going to just piece the decking back together and then realize it actually needed to be resheeted. that would be the only way to justify the price. but it doesn’t sound like he sold you what you thought you were buying. 25% of the total estimate is more than fair. he is probably telling his wife that he hopes you will pay for his mistake.


#18

[quote=“nittfa”]I do feel he made a miscalculation and rather than talking to us about it he just submitted a higher bill.

When my husband talked to him he kept saying a 3 layer tearoff is more expensive than a 2 layer which we realize and asked him to add that extra cost to his original proposal.

Somewhere on this board a person asked why the estimates aren’t broken down and several contractors said they never write them that way. And if a customer asked for one like that they would walk away from the job.

I know I will never have anything done on my house without an itemized estimate.[/quote]

Generally, contractors that do not want to provide you with a simple cost breakdown or an AIA Schedule of Values, in my opinion don’t want you to know how much money they are making off of you because they are gigging you. I handle tons of residential and commercial bids each year, and I have never had a reputable contractor refuse to provide a cost breakdown or schedule of values; primarily because they know they won’t get much legitimate work if they don’t. The other excuse would be they are too lazy, which raises the question of whether you want a lazy roofer doing your work.

And just so everyone knows, a schedule of values doesn’t necessarily show how much profit you make, it divides out the charges to show how much you are charging for the various phases of work and include your mark-up.


#19

[quote=“ed the roofer”]

[quote=“nittfa”]

Somewhere on this board a person asked why the estimates aren’t broken down and several contractors said they never write them that way. And if a customer asked for one like that they would walk away from the job.

I know I will never have anything done on my house without an itemized estimate.[/quote]

That is not the type of itemization that was being discussed in the other thread.

Absolutely, the scope of work and potential costs of anything encountered should be mandatory in any contract.

The itemization that was being discussed and debated before, was, how much the felt would cost and how much the nails would cost and how much would the nails cost and so on and so forth for each individual line item.

That does NOT need to be broken out, so long as it is included in the scope of work.

Ed[/quote]

Actually, you are incorrect. The itemization, or schedule-of-values, provides the owner with his costs according to the roofing contractor’s break-out.

In other words, a schedule-of-values wants you to list things like this:

Tear-off: $x.xx
Wood deck repair included in contract: $x.xx
Roofing material costs: $x.xx
Labor costs: $x.xx

Now in this example, if the tear-off cost was $1000, and the roofing material costs and labor were $2000, then you could clearly see that another layer of tear-off shouldn’t double the price. In fact, you could expect it to be no more than $500 given this example, since you will already have a dumpster and workmen on site.

So, no Ed. A breakdown is not wanting you to list how much you spent on every item, and how much you are charging for those items. Instead, it is to basically assign monetary values to phases of the work.


#20

You would be asking for him to put a mechanics lien on your house if you try and strong arm him.

Although, I will say I would certainly make sure the suppliers and waste company get paid, and I would go so far as to ask for a release-of-liens once they receive their payments.

As for the roofer, you are going to have to deal with him. He likely doesn’t have good credit, otherwise he would have bought the materials and everything up front instead of passing the cost onto you. This is how small-time companies and people with poor credit operate.